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Comments 99701 to 99750:
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archiesteel at 13:36 PM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
@Norman: "But the last ten years of SST have flatlined, not going up." False. The last ten years (too short a period to draw statistical significance, but let's forget that right now) show a temperature increase of about 0.12C/decade. No flatlining by any measure of the imagination. Since your basic premise is wrong, it then follows the rest of youra argument falls apart as well. It doesn't help to quote denier blogs as if they were actual reliable source. I really wish so-called "skeptics" weren't so credulous of oft-debunked pseudoscientific arguments. It seems all of their skepticism vanishes when they find something that reinforces their preconceived opinion. -
michael sweet at 13:35 PM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Norman: your sea level graph reference is an outdated denier blog. This data has recently been reviewed on this site and current scientific estimates are 1-2 meters of sea level rise, approximately five times what your blog claims. Provide a peer reviewed source if you want to suggest the illustration is incorrect, not a denier blog. -
michael sweet at 13:29 PM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Norman: The change in snow cover depends on when you measure it. The maxamium snow cover at midwinter is about the same. The minimum snow cover in the summer is much smaller. This is similar to arctic sea ice where the change in summer is greater than the change in winter. The average snow cover throughout the year is down. It is appropriate for the arrow to go down in the illustration. The fact that we do not observe monotonic rise/fall in some indicators does not mean that CO2 is not the cause. There is a lot of noise in some indicators so they seem to flatten out if you look at a short enough time frame. -
dhogaza at 12:48 PM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
"Welcome to the 2010 Climate B.S. of the Year Award." Other than for a few specifics, how is this any different than the 2009 Climate B.S. of the Year Award? Or 2008 ... or ... iterate at will :) That's a good, but depressing, list you've made ... -
Norman at 12:38 PM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
#26 EOttawa, Looking at your link for North Hemisphere snow cover I really can't see a change in arrow after 1988, basically a flatline in snow cover for 22 years, so the snow cover arrow in the graphic should be horizontal. Sea surface temperatures have risen but if you look at the rates of past increases and decreases it seems SST change can happen in relative short time span. Here is a link to a SST graph SST graph. 1910 to 1940 rose 0.6 C. 1940 to 1950 dropped 0.25 C 1980 to 2005 rose 0.5 C. But the last ten years of SST have flatlined, not going up. Consider this line of thought. If we lived in 1905 and were monitoring SST at that time we could conclude the Globe was rapidly cooling and we could have all types of terrible climate change effects. I cannot say for certain if the SST will continue to rise or not, but it is certain it has not risen in 10 years so that arrow should also be horizontal. Sea level is continuing to rise but the rate is not accelerating so that arrow is a good one. Sea level graphs. I looked at a few others and from what I could tell the rest are valid as shown. Since CO2 levels are still rising but some of the arrows are not currently rising an alternate explanation may resolve this issue. Latest observation on warming temps (which could explain why some arrrows have stopped). Dust in the Wind. -
Albatross at 12:34 PM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
Bob, Busy now, will provide a link later. Yes, it was challenged at the time, by Meehl I think. -
gallopingcamel at 12:18 PM on 31 December 2010Back from the Dead: Lost Open Mind Posts
Daniel Bailey, Thanks for a very interesting post. While no fan of Tamino, I plan to wade through the links you provided. Meanwhile, here is a link to part 2 of my musings on Greenland: http://diggingintheclay.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/dorothy-behind-the-curtain-part-2/ As luck would have it, Don Easterbrook did something very similar that appeared a couple of days earlier: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/28/2010%E2%80%94where-does-it-fit-in-the-warmest-year-list/ -
Daniel Bailey at 12:05 PM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
The National Academy of Sciences/settled fact bit was a nice touch. Wish I'da thunk it... ;) Good job, Peter! The Yooper -
Bob Guercio at 11:58 AM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
Albatross, Could you please give some context to Richard Lindzen's statement about thermometers? That statement must have been challenged by someone? Is there anything about thermometers that could lead to a statement like that? Bob -
Tenney Naumer at 11:01 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Sorry, John, I should also have mentioned that it is a very compelling graph, and I like it a lot! -
muoncounter at 10:55 AM on 31 December 2010It's the sun
Continuing from a comment here. Lockwood 2010 Solar change and climate: an update in the light of the current exceptional solar minimum is an interesting summary paper for the Royal Society. By way of introduction, The Internet has played a useful role in conveying some of the understanding, images and data that lead climate scientists to their conclusions. However, it has also become a haven for un-refereed pseudo-science with dangerously incorrect inference. It has served to give the false impression that there is a serious, widespread academic debate on the basic nature of climate change. The most popular argument runs like this: ‘The Sun drives Earth’s climate system. Therefore changes in the Sun must drive changes in Earth’s climate system’. The first sentence is, of course, absolutely correct; but understanding why the second sentence does not follow from the first requires scientific training and study. --emphasis added The remainder of the paper is a thorough treatment of solar variation, concluding with ... the popular idea (at least on the Internet and in some parts of the media) that solar changes are some kind of alternative to GHG forcing in explaining the rise in surface temperatures has no credibility with almost all climate scientists. Sounds like he's got his head on straight. -
PaulPS at 10:55 AM on 31 December 2010It's freaking cold!
You may want to change the Snow cover to an up/down arrow as based on the linked interview with Professor Mike Lockwood, winter extremes can go either way. Here is the link to the news org. The interview video is the last one on the page. http://www.channel4.com/news/uk-snow-strands-air-travellers Comment originally posted here http://www.skepticalscience.com/The-many-lines-of-evidence-for-global-warming-in-a-single-graphic.html -
muoncounter at 10:55 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Found an interesting paper by Lockwood, moving to Solar activity thread. -
Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity
co2isnotevil, Re: the ISCCP data. Problems with this dataset have been noted in the peer-reviewed literature since at least 2000, and the specific problem you cite was even mentioned in the Trenberth paper that was discussed earlier in this thread. So please, drop the "crusader for truth" act. You haven't uncovered some secret flaw in the mainstream science. As you can see - and contrary to your insinuations - the mainstream science is perfectly capable of applying critical thought to its own claims. You also neglected to mention (or didn't realize) that the ISCCP data isn't used to construct any of the standard global temperature reconstructions. These come from entirely different microwave sensors and are produced by the RSS and UAH, one of which is led by your fellow skeptic Roy Spencer. The ISCCP data is primarily used to evaluate cloud data, which is evident from their own project overview. >Anonymous review just doesn't work when the topic is controversial and your position goes against the consensus Applying greater scrutiny to those who oppose the consensus is precisely how it's supposed to work. It follows from the principle that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," and prevents solid science from becoming obscured by a constant influx of fringe theories. Every great revision of scientific consensus in the modern era has had to overcome the same difficulties, why should your ideas receive any less scrutiny? Really, your entire criticism of the peer review process is nothing more than a subtle Galileo fallacy. Honestly, it is very admirable that you are seeking to produce your own analysis, but if you expect anyone to take your ideas seriously you are going to have to subject them to a bit of rigor. That you would expect otherwise suggests a very inflated sense of self-importance. -
Albatross at 10:53 AM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
I'm disappointed Lindzen did not make the list for claiming, in his recent testimony to Congress, that thermometers are now sensitive only to high temperatures and not cold ones, thereby partly explaining the increase in global temperatures. Ooh, another one was the claims that the Arctic sea ice was going to make a recovery this year.... I realise though that the line had to be drawn somewhere, there are just too many examples of B.S. from the "skeptics". Seriously though, a great job and very well written. Hopefully this becomes an annual event to remind everyone of the inane claims made by 'skeptics' and contrarians. Come to think of it, this would make for a great editorial/opinion piece in some major news outlets.....the public really do need to know how blatantly and frequently "skeptics" mislead and misinform. Any takers? -
archiesteel at 10:52 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
@PaulPS: "If you shelter yourself to just blogs that agree with your present view, how will you ever know if you have the whole picture, or challenge thought with opposing views?" Who said I sheltered myself? I know exactly where to go if I want to hear different opinions. The problem is that science isn't about opinion, it's about fact. Powerful economic interests may have turned it into a political issue, but in the end the question remains a scientific one, and the amount of evidence supporting AGW leaves little room for doubt. Contrarians and deniers already get much more exposure than their relatively small numbers (and dubious logic) would normally get them. They have transformed an old journalistic concept - there's two sides to every story - into a way to manipulate the scientific discourse to their advantage. The reality is that, in science, there is only one side to every story. Sure, sometimes it's inaccurate, or false, but science has a way of correcting itself (publication in peer-reviewed journals, for example). The romantic idea that deniers are underdogs are rightly fighting for what they believe is a mirage. Deniers oppose AGW theory on principle, because it disagrees with their political position. Now, I want to apologize if I came down a bit hard...this site is attracting an ever greater number of anti-science trolls, and it can sometimes cause some of us to jump the gun a bit. I encourage you to continue reading the articles on this site, and to make your own judgement. Just remember this isn't a debate between two equally valid ideas, but of current science vs. theories that aren't supported by evidence or observations. -
Albatross at 10:41 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
No worries Paul, Lockwood's research is off-topic on tis thread. So avoid the wrath of the moderators it should probably be discussed here or perhaps here or maybe even this one. Just re-post it there (with a hyperlink here) and I'm sure people will hop over to the relevant thread to discuss it. -
citizenschallenge at 10:38 AM on 31 December 2010The 2010 Climate B.S.* of the Year Award
Three cheers! And well phrased Peter G. Tough choices, at first I wasn't sure about your placement... but the more I thought about my doubts the more they faded away. Another great post. John Cook, Peter G, and all the other contributors thank you for being one of the highlights of 2010. Happy New Years to you all. peter m -
PaulPS at 10:33 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Albatross I appreciate your comments and advice. This site, RealClimate, and others are extremely valuable to me as I gain greater understanding of Climate Science. Visiting denier sites is also important to me so I can collect the pros and cons, and as a lay person, make the most informed decision. Skepticalscience has provided a wealth of knowledge for which I am truly grateful. I have not commented much as facing the rath of the regulars here is not very wise unless you have all of your facts straight. The interview with Dr. Lockwood ignited some questions that I thought you guys might be able to shed some light on. I am not trying to provoke or take a stand either way, just wanted your thoughts. -
Albatross at 10:22 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
PaulPS, A quick perusal of any thread on this science blog will show that dissenting and controversial views are openly accepted and entertained. The house rules are strict, but it is because of that that SS is perhaps the most pleasant place to discuss the science on AGW on the web, and has been for some time. I have learnt much on this site, ironically much of it by chasing down red herrings from contrarians and 'skeptics'. Now we have drifted off-topic any thoughts/comments on the post and or featured figure? -
Albatross at 10:15 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
PaulPS, "There is no alterior motive, but to learn and understand with inputs from both sides of the climate debate" The scientific debate/questioning surrounding anthropogenic climate change/disruption happens daily at conferences, in a myriad of journals, and amongst academics, and has been happening for many, many decades. Framing this issue as a "debate" between two equally valid/qualified/credible "sides" is highly misleading and just plain wrong. The situation with anthropogenic global warming is in many ways similar to that endured in the faux "debates" fabricated surrounding issues such as evolution and tobacco. The 'skeptics' camp is a mire of misinformation, distortion and politics, with little or no interest in the science or advancing of science per se, if anything they seem to be largely preoccupied with being obstructionist and attacking the science and scientists. There are plenty of examples to support that statement. Paul, there is really three 'holy grails' left in the science of anthropogenic warming and they are (1) equilibrium climate sensitivity for doubling (or more of CO2), and even the current best estimate of +3C was derived over the course of many decades using multiple, independent lines of evidence. It is not a question of when or if it will warm, but rather of how much and in what time frame, and what the impacts will be; (2) Sea level rise; and (3) Improving regional impacts. That is where the biggest advances still need to be made, at least IMHO. Science will continue to advance though (without the help of Montford et al.), regional impacts will be improved, decadal predictions will improve etc. Like others here, I urge you to avoid some of the more notorious politically-motivated climate science misinformation (and conspiracy) sites. The one being discussed here is one of those. If you would like a list of other "offenders", then I or someone else can post one for you. The best course of action is always to go to the original source, such as a journal paper (even reading the abstract can often tell you whether or not what you have been told is wrong, distorted or being spun), or a vetted site/source (such as NASA, NOAA, BOM, Met Office or NIWA). -
PaulPS at 10:10 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Bibliovermis Here is the link to the news org. The interview video is the last one on the page. http://www.channel4.com/news/uk-snow-strands-air-travellers -
Bibliovermis at 10:03 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Yes, you can get more primary by linking to the publisher of the interview, rather than an opinion blog hosting a clip. Contrarian sources are notorious for slicing and dicing. -
PaulPS at 09:51 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
bibliovermis I received this information from an actual interview with Dr. Lockwood. You cannot get any more primary than that. -
PaulPS at 09:50 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
muoncounter Cultural lesson learned. Would it now be possible to get some critical thoughts on Dr Lockwood's statement in the referenced interview? There is no alterior motive, but to learn and understand with inputs from both sides of the climate debate. If the blog is not accepting visitors that is fine too. -
EOttawa at 09:49 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Rutgers University's Snow Cover Lab provides graphs of snow cover anomalies since 1966 http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_anom.php?ui_set=0&ui_region=nhland&ui_month=11 -
Bibliovermis at 09:36 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
PaulPS, It is better to get scientific knowledge from primary sources, or sources which directly link to such, than from a "balanced spread" of opinion blogs. "Not getting the whole picture" is perilously close to conspiracy notions of vast malicious deceit and incompetent groupthink. It is best to trace new publishings back to the primary source so that the full context can be understood. -
muoncounter at 09:35 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
#23: "If you shelter yourself... " In case you hadn't noticed, the 'opposing views' often drop in for a visit; some try to apply for permanent resident status. And even the people who agree don't hesitate to correct a faux pas. -
PaulPS at 09:24 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
archiesteel I knew this was a denier blog, but not aware of veiled threats, thanks for the insight. The link takes you to the video that was on channel 4 news. If you Google "Lockwood a-hundred-years-of-freezing" you can see it on a different website. If you shelter yourself to just blogs that agree with your present view, how will you ever know if you have the whole picture, or challenge thought with opposing views? -
Alec Cowan at 09:23 AM on 31 December 2010It's freaking cold!
@kdfv #66 Maybe you didn't read or understand the "explanation of legend terminology" that is linked to the map, and also forgot to figure out a way to compare local departure from normal to state averages. You have to do that to say "I don't see how the two maps relate" being that they so clearly relate. You may decide to polish your abilities to simply observe a map as your assertion "it shows the temperatures generally around 4 to 6 degrees above normal" is obviously false and your assertion "it just shows the majority of states at or below normal" is permanently true no matter what you compare (but good dialectic design in your phrases, as that "or" easily makes people forget it is indeed an "and") -
mdenison at 09:21 AM on 31 December 2010Back from the Dead: Lost Open Mind Posts
http://replay.waybackmachine.org can take you back less. There you can find many more missing links from Aug 2008 to May 2009. -
archiesteel at 08:47 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
@PaulPS: please don't link to denier blogs, especially not those that allow veiled threats of violence in their comments. -
archiesteel at 08:45 AM on 31 December 2010Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity
@co2isnotevil: "I've seen good papers get completely gutted because the 'peers' who reviewed it didn't like the conclusions." Hogwash. More likely, the paper was poor but you felt it was unjustly treated because you agreed with its conclusions. In any case, that's hardly an excuse not to have your theories published and reviewed. "Anonymous review just doesn't work when the topic is controversial and your position goes against the consensus, but it's OK for more accepted mainstream science." Again, conspiracy theories. "Oh, but if only those meanies stopped me from propagating the truth..." Seriously, that's not a defense, that's simply an acknowledgement that your theories aren't sound enough to gain approval. "BTW, I never called it a conspiracy, you did." You clearly implied it. "If you want to use that word, perhaps a inadvertent conspiracy of flawed group think would be more appropriate." Ah, so scientists aren't part of a large conspiracy, they're just idiots who are swayed by groupthink instead of logic - except for you, of course! Give us a break... "I have to believe that scientists pushing the catastrophic point of view must believe what they are saying. The problem is they don't have enough information to know for sure and the reality of the situation is they are just guessing based on a 'gut feeling'." Incorrect. There is ample evidence that AGW is real, and happening. Satellite measurements of OLR is just one of them. As I said before the burden of proof is on you, and you have failed. Discrediting honest, hard-working scientists to paint yourself as the only voice of truth isn't helping. In fact, it's showing your true colors, and they're quite ugly. "The reason seems clear since when you fix these issues, no warming trend is observed and if anything, there's been a small cooling trend over the last 10 years." Again, that seems very unlikely since *every* other record shows a warming trend. What's more likely, that everyone else is wrong and that this single instance really means the opposite of what it's supposed to mean, or that everyone is right, notwithstanding a single point of measurement was inaccurate? I'm sorry, but at this point there is no reason to believe your unreviewed theories over the accepted science - and it is, in fact, accepted. The only reason it is "controversial" is that Energy companies such as Koch Industries have funnelled millions into contrarian groups (and that's no conspiracy, we have a clear money trail). -
Bibliovermis at 08:31 AM on 31 December 2010Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity
Your example concerns an absolute value. I was explicitly discussing a trend. If you are going to contribute, please read what you are replying to. Focusing on absolute values when discussing climate sensitivity is less than helpful. -
co2isnotevil at 08:22 AM on 31 December 2010Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity
Biblio, Precision does no good when the trend you are looking for is smaller than the data uncertainty. Consider a model that says 2+2 = 5 +/- 1. This is technically correct since 2+2=4 and that's within the uncertainty. Can you see what happens when you increase precision without increasing accuracy? You end up with a result like 2+2 = 5 +/- 0.25, which while more precise, is no more accurate than the first result and in fact the real answer is outside the uncertainty of the result. -
co2isnotevil at 08:18 AM on 31 December 2010Lindzen and Choi find low climate sensitivity
archiesteel, I've seen good papers get completely gutted because the 'peers' who reviewed it didn't like the conclusions. I prefer interactive review with known individuals, rather than the anonymous review often utilized for climate papers. Anonymous review just doesn't work when the topic is controversial and your position goes against the consensus, but it's OK for more accepted mainstream science. You can bark all you want about the science being settled, but the truth is climate science is the most controversial branch of science around. BTW, I never called it a conspiracy, you did. If you want to use that word, perhaps a inadvertent conspiracy of flawed group think would be more appropriate. I have to believe that scientists pushing the catastrophic point of view must believe what they are saying. The problem is they don't have enough information to know for sure and the reality of the situation is they are just guessing based on a 'gut feeling'. Science isn't about gut feelings, but about logic, data and first principles and all of this is turning decidedly against the gut feelings driving climate alarmists. Relative to what my climate tool does with the ISCCP satellite data. all I'm doing is plotting the NASA data. And as I told you, the errors I pointed out have been acknowledged by Rossow, who is one of the principles of the ISCCP project and wrote much of their SW. BTW, I had to do a lot of reverse engineering of the error before Rossow would even acknowledge the problem, but he finally did admit to the programming error that led to this problem. He response was, 'Well, you can't use ISCCP data for identifying trends'. The reason seems clear since when you fix these issues, no warming trend is observed and if anything, there's been a small cooling trend over the last 10 years. -
PaulPS at 08:13 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
You may want to change the Snow cover to an up/down arrow as based on the linked interview with Professor Mike Lockwood, winter extremes can go either way. http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2010/12/30/a-hundred-years-of-freezing.html -
EOttawa at 08:08 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Hmm. The svg opened in Inkscape correctly, but text problems in chrome and firefox -
EOttawa at 08:01 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
The svg is missing a namespace definition - adding xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" to the svg element solved it for me. -
daisym at 07:56 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
The graph shows an excellent portrayal of effects of warming. History reveals migrations of plants and animals over the ages to result from warming (and cooling) cycles of the planet. In the context of the AGW "debate", it seems that the graph is neutral, that it provides no attribution to causes of the warming... just to the effects of the warming. Even so, the scientific research depicted in the graph has added considerable knowledge of how all living things adapt to changing climates. The graph provides as succinct a summary as one could ever find. -
dhogaza at 07:18 AM on 31 December 2010A Positive Outlook For Clouds
" it looks to me when I apply the equations that 0.75ºC per W/m² actually equates to a climate sensitivity of 2.78ºC per doubling of CO2" 2.78C comes from GISS Model E, I'm sure (i.e. the model that Gavin works on). I know it's < 3C (but well within the error bars that the 3C best estimate from IPCC comes with). -
Albatross at 06:27 AM on 31 December 2010It's cooling
Thanks Archiesteel @97, I'm busy today, so I can't argue with BP. Some points. The planet is warming (accumulating heat) the trend in global SATs and tropospheric temperatures is positive and statistically significant, and the rate of warming is noteworthy. Sad that BP cannot even conceded that simple point without prefacing the statement with a caveat. BP, despite his claims is not calculating EQS, he is calculating TCR, and his estimate of TCR is within the range of TCR calculated by Gregory and Forster. If BP thinks he is onto something regarding EQS being so low (he does not say exactly how low, lots of arm waving), I am sure Journal of Climate would be happy to ship his manuscript off to the reviewers if they think his proposed method has merit. Yes, the OHC data are problematic. My point though was that despite the spikes and troughs, the trend in those 0-2000 m OHC data between 2003 and 2008 is up. I do not see a systematic positive bias in the measurements. Finally, let us for now forget the SAT data and the OHC data. There are still multiple, independent lines of evidence which point to a warming planet (oddly enough a planet which BP claims is 'cooling itself'). -
Albatross at 06:13 AM on 31 December 2010Did Global Warming stop in
1998,1995,2002,2007, 2010?
Archie and Michael, I'm saddened to have to agree with your assessments--detraction, obfuscation, fabricating faux debate. I'll add another, it is sad when the "skeptics" are is such a weak position that they have to argue semantics. For example, claiming that a "warming trend" is different from "the planet is warming" (see BP's posts on CS thread). Also BP opines: "It means the extra heat from there can not go anywhere but to an even colder heat reservoir, which is outer space." Well, the GHGs are proving to be an impediment to the loss LWR from the surface. But in BPs' world it seems that LWR from the surface is simply lost to space, unimpeded. Maybe he did not mean that, but then he should have very carefully stated otherwise. -
BlueRock at 06:04 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Excellent graphic. Thank you, guys. Just curious: where does the SVG work? I tried Fx4, Chrome11 and Opera11 - none display correctly. P.S. You can trim down the size of PNGs with http://www.pngoptimizer.com/ or http://optipng.sourceforge.net/ -
JMurphy at 05:02 AM on 31 December 2010It's freaking cold!
kdfv, can you post the link to the second map you are referring to ? -
michael sweet at 04:57 AM on 31 December 2010Did Global Warming stop in
1998,1995,2002,2007, 2010?
BP: The discussion is about the temperature anamoly data. Your graph of surface temperatures is a pitiful attempt to distract people from the discussion. Everyone knows that it is cold in the arctic in the winter. You should stay on topic. For your information, until this week it was above 0C in southern Greenland. It is too bad that you have given up on trying to produce analysis of data tht support your position and now just disrupt discussions that others have. -
RickG at 04:37 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
#4 TOP I understood the article to be about effect (what is happening) rather than cause (what made it happen). Nevertheless, I'll go back and re-read it to be absolutely sure. ......Yup! Second reading gives me the same impression. Perhaps you can point out what I'm missing. Cheers! -
TOP at 04:07 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
#14 muoncounter I'm talking about the graphic, not "It's not us". For instance, do you see any mention of those green house gases in the graphic. I only see one. -
muoncounter at 04:01 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
#10: "this graphic could be construed as non-AGW." Also construed as AGW in many places on SkS. Use Search to find 'It's not us', 'The human fingerprint', etc. If you do not believe there is human influence on climate, please explain what causes and then mitigated acid rain and ozone depletion. Then explain why there are urban CO2 domes, a close seasonal correlation between CO2/CO/CH4, soot in the Arctic, etc -- all on a thread like 'It's not us'. -
KeenOn350 at 04:01 AM on 31 December 2010The many lines of evidence for global warming in a single graphic
Sorry, didn't spend enough time on this before posting 1st comment. Agree with psweet - species are "shifting ranges", or "moving" or "being dislocated". Agree with m. sweet - Ocean pH is a pretty serious problem, an aspect of the CO2 problem, and one to which we need to draw more attention. Which makes me wonder about the title: I really don't like the term "global warming". It is too comfy and cuddly feeling. John Holdren has tried to promote "climate disruption", which is a bit better. If you do include ocean pH and other factors, then we are really looking at symptoms of Biosphere Disruption - but maybe that is tending towards OT for the main SS theme...
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