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Dikran Marsupial at 17:05 PM on 24 June 2013Is More Global Warming Hiding in the Oceans?
Donthaveone - if you are interested in the answers to your questions (the tone of your post suggests probably not), then I suspect that a good place to look for them would be the original study, which appears to be this one:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/grl.50370/abstract
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Donthaveone at 15:49 PM on 24 June 2013Is More Global Warming Hiding in the Oceans?
Do you think it is possible to take a very small sample of data from 135 years ago, manipulate it a bit and then compare it to Argo data and then draw a conclusion of any relevance?
just some questions?
How was the equipment calibrated?
What was the margin of error in the original data?
Was the process of measuring the data the same for each and every measurement?
How accurate was the hemp rope for measuring depth?
Was the data reported correctly and consistently?
Was the data rounded up or down or did they measure down to 3 decimal places?
What were the currents at the time, could this have an effect on the results?
Too many variables combined with a very small sample means this comparison is a futile exercise.
Cheers
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rockytom at 14:47 PM on 24 June 2013Real Skepticism About the New Marcott 'Hockey Stick'
it is always easier to find fault with original research than to build upon it. As soon as this message is understood, most of the contrairians will be ignored. One of the many great aspects of "doing science" is its reproducability. Of course most of Earth Science is not reproducable. We're living the experiment. But some of it is and I notice that contrarians, deniers, and many other non-scientists do not even attempt to reproduce a research project before trying to dispute the results. Shouldn't that tell us something?
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rockytom at 14:13 PM on 24 June 20132013 SkS Weekly Digest #25
The "Toon of the Week" solution to climate change has already been proposed by some of our (U.S.) republican members of congress.
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Ari Jokimäki at 13:35 PM on 24 June 20132013 SkS Weekly Digest #25
I'll just note that there will be some breaks during the next few weeks in the Facebook new research stream due to summer vacation.
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Phil L at 13:24 PM on 24 June 2013Peak Water, Peak Oil…Now, Peak Soil?
Stephen Leahy: Peak Oil refers to a non-renewable resource. Oil will reach a peak eventually, but I believe that with good stewardship, the soil is truly sustainable. Certainly there are examples of soil degradation, but I think it's important to acknowledge where good farming practices are taking place. I know people who farm in England on land that has been farmed for centuries, using scientific principles of crop rotation, and their soil is probably in better condition than it was 200 years ago. I also remember driving through southern Saskatchewan in the 1980s when the air would be dusty as the wind blew topsoil off of the summerfallow. Now there is much less summerfallow because farmers have adopted zero-tillage practices, and the organic content of the soil is increasing. Bad farming practices should be criticized, but I also believe that good farming practices should be recognized and applauded.
And I don't question the value of earthworms in gardens or agricultural soil. It's the forest soils that suffer from earthworm introduction, as discussed in the article that I linked to. -
scaddenp at 12:27 PM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Reply to JM is now here.
Mods perhaps a clean up of thread with my mistake and follow ups? Very sorry about that. And perhaps move RH comment as well?
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scaddenp at 12:25 PM on 24 June 2013There's no empirical evidence
Answering James Madison from another thread. James, you appear to claiming that observed temperature rise is not in keeping with the model predictions. The reason I asked what was your model, was because it appears your broad model assumes linear increase in CO2 means near linear increase in surface temperature. In fact, if you look at an individual GCM run, (not ensemble mean), then no such prediction is made. To me, it seems you are attacking predictions that were never made. That might indeed be a problem with communicating science, but it is not a problem with the science. Surface temperatures have a very large component of internal variability. This is well known and reasonably well understood. That is the reason why I pointed you to total OHC - a better diagnostic as temperature imbalance.
If you think global warming is outside predictions, perhaps you would note that we have had a long string of La Nina/neutral phase in ENSO. This strongly influences surface temperatures. Care to make a prediction on what the surface temperature will do when the next 1.8 or higher El Nino occurs or do you think such an event wont happen again. (you can find an historical record of ENSO here).
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scaddenp at 12:20 PM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Arrgh! In my efforts to move conversation to a more suitable forum, I have commented in an unpublished article! Sorry admins. I will try to find a more suitbable place.
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Stephen Leahy at 12:02 PM on 24 June 2013Peak Water, Peak Oil…Now, Peak Soil?
Phil L: I see now the mention of earthworms as part of my general description of life in dirt.
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John Hartz at 09:10 AM on 24 June 2013Media Overlooking 90% of Global Warming
Speaking of climate change, Phil Plait made some excellent points in a recent post on his Bad Astromony blog.
The melt in Greenland and the high temperatures in Alaska may be more signs—like we needed more—of the reality of climate change. Even scarier is the fact that the climate models used before didn’t predict this sort of thing. The climate is very complex, and it’s hard to model it accurately. This is well-known and is why it’s so hard to make long-term predictions.
But before the deniers crow that climatologists don’t know what they’re doing, note this well: The predictions made using these models almost always seem to underestimate the effects of climate change. That’s true in this case, too. So it’s not that the models are wrong and therefore climate change doesn’t exist. It’s that the models aren’t perfect, and it’s looking like things are worse than we thought.
Source: A Clear View of Alaska—and Maybe Our Future by Phil Plait, Slate, June 20, 2013
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Composer99 at 09:02 AM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Maybe I'm the only one getting this, but scaddenp's response to James Madison is turning up as "File not found" when clicking directly on the hyperlink (at least for me) but shows up fine in the general Comments stream.
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Rob Honeycutt at 08:31 AM on 24 June 2013Media Overlooking 90% of Global Warming
scaddenp... You know, that's really interesting you mention this. I think you've exactly nailed one major misinterpretation of climate models. I've tried to explain the same thing numerous times in the comments sections of many climate articles.
Some people seem to believe that the mean is what surface temps are "supposed" to do; or are project to do. And it's nothing of the sort.
I often tell them that the ensemble range sets the boundary conditions for what we expect to see, and right now we are at the low end of those boundary conditions. But we are clearly still within those boundary conditions, thus the models are still currently correct.
If we continued with 10 more years of slow or no warming, then something is amiss. I don't expect that is what will happen. It's more likely that we are going to see another rapid rise in surface temps over the coming couple of decades.
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Deco79 at 07:55 AM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Great work on the app! This will be another success similar to "The Escalator" as it shows data quickly, visually and succinctly which is very important in communicating unwieldy information to lay audiences. Very "Hans Rosling" too which is cool!
Moderator Response:[RH] Fixed link that was breaking page format.
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scaddenp at 07:42 AM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
In the interests of keeping discussion on topic, I have answered JM here.
Moderator Response:[TD] There's no there "here," I assume because that post is still embargoed so non-moderators can't see it yet.
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scaddenp at 07:41 AM on 24 June 2013Media Overlooking 90% of Global Warming
Answering James Madison from another thread. James, you appear to claiming that observed temperature rise is not in keeping with the model predictions. The reason I asked what was your model, was because it appears your broad model assumes linear increase in CO2 means near linear increase in surface temperature. In fact, if you look at an individual GCM run, (not ensemble mean), then no such prediction is made. To me, it seems you are attacking predictions that were never made. That might indeed be a problem with communicating science, but it is not a problem with the science. Surface temperatures have a very large component of internal variability. This is well known and reasonably well understood. That is the reason why I pointed you to total OHC - a better diagnostic as temperature imbalance.
If you think global warming is outside predictions, perhaps you would note that we have had a long string of La Nina/neutral phase in ENSO. This strongly influences surface temperatures. Care to make a prediction on what the surface temperature will do when the next 1.8 or higher El Nino occurs or do you think such an event wont happen again. (you can find an historical record of ENSO here).
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Rob Honeycutt at 07:31 AM on 24 June 2013Human CO2 is a tiny % of CO2 emissions
Elysium... If you believe it's "so basic" then you should have no problem citing the published literature that supports the point you're trying to make.
I would first suggest that you read the comments policy before continuing the conversation.
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Dikran Marsupial at 07:13 AM on 24 June 2013Human CO2 is a tiny % of CO2 emissions
Elysium, if you want to discuss science, then I would avoid starting your message "So how does this work?" and ending "It's so basic I don't know how you can write such things about non-issues.", which rather sounds like you have made up your mind about how it works.
If you think something is a non-issue, then state exactly what you think is a non-issue and why, and maybe someone will discuss it with you.
It clearly isn't "true that nature balances the levels when there are changes in CO2 production, whether its man made or natural". If it were, CO2 levels would not have been rising sharply for the last century or so.
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tcflood at 06:35 AM on 24 June 2013Lu Blames Global Warming on CFCs (Curve Fitting Correlations)
I can't find Lu's two postings. Can you help?
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grindupBaker at 04:05 AM on 24 June 2013Jim Powell's Inquisition of Climate Science now available in paperback
Another topic in today's post is "Is More Global Warming Hiding in the Oceans". Regarding this, note how the other prong of the blatantly transparent orchestrated attack apart from showing the instruments of torture (calls to prosecute) is to curtail funding for the science (paraphrasing: costing billions, just to keep their wealthy institutions going). The 3 prongs that I would develop if I were an institution supporting fossil fuels are (1) cause confusion (2) threaten the science & scientists (3) get the science curtailed, preferably stopped. This is so transparent that it's entertaining.
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grindupBaker at 03:52 AM on 24 June 2013Is More Global Warming Hiding in the Oceans?
It's well gone time for the governments to spend the resources required to measure ocean heat content accurately so that its increase is known from year to year. Same for the major freshwater (the other 2.5% of where "global warming" goes).
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Elysium at 03:26 AM on 24 June 2013Human CO2 is a tiny % of CO2 emissions
So how does this work? Do the natural cycles segregate man made CO2 from the natural produced CO2? It is true that nature balances the levels when there are changes in CO2 production, whether it's man made or natural. "Balance" is a variable and it is relative over time. When the CO2 levels increase, the amount of flora increases as well. It's so basic I don't know how you can write such things about non-issues.
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John Hartz at 02:27 AM on 24 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Recent comments posted by James Madison have been dleted because they were off-topic. One comment by scaddenp was also deleted for the same reason.
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citizenschallenge at 01:46 AM on 24 June 2013Is More Global Warming Hiding in the Oceans?
There is also a good lecture available through UCTV's Perspectives on Ocean Science:
"135 Years of Global Ocean Warming - Perspectives on Ocean Science"
http://www.uctv.tv/shows/135-Years-of-Global-Ocean-Warming-Perspectives-on-Ocean-Science-23999
Perspectives on Ocean Science
Date: 9/12/2012; 56 minutes
A new study comparing past and present ocean temperatures reveals the global ocean has been warming for more than a century. Join Dean Roemmich, Scripps physical oceanographer and study co-author, as he describes how warm our oceans are getting, where all that heat is going, and how this knowledge will help scientists better understand the earth's climate.Learn how scientists measured ocean temperature during the historic voyage of the HMS Challenger (1872-76) and how today's network of ocean-probing robots is changing the way scientists study the seas. (#23999)
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chriskoz at 17:31 PM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
Terranova,
Why do you critique John for the choice of Rolling Stone as new source, and subsequently trolling about it? We know that RS is not a scientific journal and I would not expect it as a basis for any serious article. The purpose of those roundups is not to dissect science but to see "what's going on" in the popular press.
As such, I for example find the RS article about "10 Dumbest Things" very useful to read in order to have a good laugh. I liked especially the number 9:
9. "100 years is a long time . . . There is an extremely high chance that the very nature of human society itself will have changed by that time in ways that render this entire issue moot."
Believe it or not, skptics used to take such argumentation seriously, they have changed the goalposts since.
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chriskoz at 17:12 PM on 23 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Tom&Paul@19-20,
Good to know the original app is up running, thanks guys. It's a very useful cross check. So, we can say that while AGW causation is 97% according to Cook 2013 poll, the validity of myth climate debunking by SkS on the left margin is 90% on average (as calculated by Tom above) according to the publications known to SkS. Well, it maybe biased, based on the SkS' choice of articles but I guess it is not. 90% is underestandably lower given the brad spectrum of myths, but still strong.
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Chris G at 13:40 PM on 23 June 2013Jim Powell's Inquisition of Climate Science now available in paperback
I suppose that works, but it could also be Fourier. The analogy is not perfect.
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John Hartz at 12:32 PM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
@Terranova #9:
NOAA explains how it computed the 3.15mm/yr rate of seal level rise for Charleston, SC as follows:
The mean sea level trend is 3.15 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.25 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from 1921 to 2006 which is equivalent to a change of 1.03 feet in 100 years.
Do you believe that the annual rate of 3.15 millimeters per year will continue over the next 50 years? The next 100 years?
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michael sweet at 11:40 AM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
Terranova,
I am not sure what your point was with your posts, but I have this response. You said " I've walked out of my downtown house in Charleston to be greeted by 2 feet of water in the streets". 8 inches of that was due to climate change fueled sea level rise. How much better would you have been with only 16 inches of water instead of 24? I can drive through 16 inches of water but 24 floods my engine. In general, the last 8 inches of a flood cause a disproportionate amount of damage. You are correct that 3.15 mm of sea level rise is not much to worry about. The increase in global temperature this year of about 0.02C is also nothing that bothers me. Unfortunately, these increases will continue for the indefinate future. 3.15 mm of sea level rise will be 1 foot more water in your street in 100 years, except that the rate is projected to increase substantially during that time. That is enough water to stop up the street drains in Maimi. Likewise the .02C rise will be 2C in 100 years, unless it also increases as projected. This will be over the safe limit of 2C when added to the 0.6C we have already experienced.
The sea level rise today was only about 10 micrometers. Who cares? That is less than the thickness of a piece of paper! -
tcflood at 10:41 AM on 23 June 2013Eschenbach and McIntyre - Seeing the BEST part of the Satellite Temperature Record?
Tom Curtis,
Thank you for taking the time to give this detailed answer. It's a big help.
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SEAN O at 09:12 AM on 23 June 2013Jim Powell's Inquisition of Climate Science now available in paperback
Chris G, If Arrhenius is the Galileo of Climate Change, does that make Tyndall the Copernicus?
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Terranova at 08:41 AM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
John,
You are correct on the NOAA link you provided. And, I am by no means trolling, and I am not even sure what sloganeering means in the context of my post. If I offended you, or any readers, I offer my sincere apologies.
Take this statement in the vein it is intended. As a working scientist, I feel that articles from sources such as Rolling Stone detract from the hard science attempted by SKS. Rolling Stone magazine is great (I read my sister-in-laws secondhand copies) when it comes to music and liberal politics, but not so much when it comes to science.
In the future I will restrict my comments to the "sciencey" stuff.
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Chris G at 08:39 AM on 23 June 2013Jim Powell's Inquisition of Climate Science now available in paperback
Climate change has already has its Galileo. His name was Svante Arrhenius.
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Tom Curtis at 08:27 AM on 23 June 2013Eschenbach and McIntyre - Seeing the BEST part of the Satellite Temperature Record?
Additional to the above, Chris Colose (I think) once posted a very interesting blog showing satellite images at different frequencies showing clearly how different altitudes became successively revealed. Very interesting inrelation to tcflood's question. I have tried to find it since with no success. If anybody could direct me to it, or the original data he used, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Tom Curtis at 08:24 AM on 23 June 2013Eschenbach and McIntyre - Seeing the BEST part of the Satellite Temperature Record?
tcflood @24/25, the following is the microwave absorption spectrum of oxygen at different altitudes:
The absorption spectrum is a a function of absorptivity, which equal emissivity, so the above graph also tells you the relative strength of emission of O2 if all levels were at a constant temperature.
If you have an instrument on a satellite examining the emissions at 69 Ghz, you would know that it came almost entirely from the lower 3 km of the atmosphere. You know this because the lower 3 km will emit at that frequency, but the levels above that will neither absorb nor emit at that frequency (or at least, not significantly). In contrast, if you sampled at 60.5 GHz, you would know that the radiation comes mostly from 20 Km or above. That would be because O2 at those levels emitt microwaves, but also because they strongly absorb microwaves, thus filtering out the lower levels. By carefull selection of frequency, you can thus choose among a range of emission weights with altitude, which will be governed by the radiative transfer properties at that altitude as modulated by pressure.
If you have a spare $130, this book will give you all the information you desire (I suspect). Unfortunately, I could not find the original proposal for the MSU or AMSU instruments by google search. Should you be able to do so, they undoubtedly be able to give you far more detailed information.
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tcflood at 05:50 AM on 23 June 2013Eschenbach and McIntyre - Seeing the BEST part of the Satellite Temperature Record?
To clarify what I don't know a little further, I am aware of pressure broadening. But even if each channel were measuring line shapes (peak widths), how would you be able to separate different band widths at a given frequency? Perhaps part of the answer is that different rotational transitions might have very different intensities as a function of pressure, but wouldn't they as a function of temperature at the same time? How does all of this get resolved?
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tcflood at 05:16 AM on 23 June 2013Eschenbach and McIntyre - Seeing the BEST part of the Satellite Temperature Record?
I am having trouble understanding how the MSU works. Let me begin with what I think I do know, and let’s see if that’s OK.
The microwave radiometer measures radiance (intensity) of O2 which depends on the ambient temperature at which the molecule finds itself. Normally selection rules say a homonuclear diatomic molecule (like N2) with no electric dipole is transparent to microwave. OTOH, O2 is paramagnetic so the radiation can couple to the molecule’s magnetic dipole, hence leading to absorption and emission. The radiometer has several channels which detect microwave intensity with a voltage response that is digitized and stored.
Each channel has a voltage vs. atmospheric pressure curve that maximizes at a specific pressure and so specific altitude which is different for each channel. Your article is calling these the relative weighting function.
Here’s the question. What is different about what each channel is measuring, and how do that parameter and the voltage allow specification of the temperature and pressure? I assume each channel is somehow tuned to a different frequency by a few wavenumbers, but I’m not a spectroscopist and haven’t been able to deduce the answer. I haven’t been able to find it on the web either – everything stops short of that kind of detail.
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Paul Pukite at 04:30 AM on 23 June 2013Another Piece of the Global Warming Puzzle - More Efficient Ocean Heat Uptake
I added an extra section on Watanabe's results to a blog post I had written on a proportional land/sea warming model.
http://theoilconundrum.blogspot.com/2013/05/proportional-landsea-global-warming.html
The gist is that I think it may be possible to infer this ocean heat uptake by comparing the land and ocean temperatures in a systematic fashion. There is a fractional value, f, that elates the land to sea surface temperature and which corresponds to the ocean heat uptake, i.e. lower values means that more heat is being sunk by the ocean.
I think Watanabe et all are correct in inferring that the ocean heat uptake is causing the plateauing of the global temperature. It is also clear that this cannot continue for the long term.
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Hyperactive Hydrologist at 04:18 AM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
Really interesting interview with Bob Sanford regarding the flooding in Alberta and the role climate change has on the intensification of the hydrological cycle.
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rugbyguy59 at 03:45 AM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
Terra@5: I wonder if the people of New York and New Jersey might have said the same thing....last year.
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John Hartz at 01:29 AM on 23 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
@Terranova #5:
Although you did not provide a direct link to it, I presume that you found the 3.15mm/yr rate of seal level rise for Charleston, SC on NOAA's graph, Mean Sea Level Trend 8665530 Charleston, South Carolina. Am I correct?
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Stephen Leahy at 01:09 AM on 23 June 2013Peak Water, Peak Oil…Now, Peak Soil?
Boswarm: Since I was at the conference, attended the sessions, interviewed a dozen people and wrote the article let me clarify a couple of things: Iceland has not recovered, it remains Europe's largest desert despite the amazing efforts of the soil cons service. That is what their scientists told me and I quoted them. I spent 2 wks there.
You seem to imply I made this stuff up. Were you at the conf?
FYI It is a 1000 word article, not a transcript of 3 days of talks
Phil L: the article does not mention earthworms, it's in the photo cutline and have no idea who wrote it. Nor did I write the headline. However more than one soil scientist has used the term 'peak soil'.
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Terranova at 22:01 PM on 22 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
Rugbyguy, you're right. But, I just checked NOAA for Charleston's SLR and it is at 3.15 mm/yr. Not a lot to worry about.
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Paul D at 21:25 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Chriskoz@18, yes the original had the clusters of circles in a line.
We decided to reduce the width of this app to fit the current web site layout, which meant re-arranging the positions of the clusters.I'm working on a bar chart option in addition to the circles, although I can't say exactly when it will be available.
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Tom Curtis at 21:17 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
chriskoz @18, click the "Interactive History of Climate Science" on the left bar (just under and to the right of the button for the "Consensus Project".
The interactive history starts with Fourier's classic in 1824, and runs through to 2012. In total, it has 266 Skeptic, 2376 Neutral, and 2493 Pro AGW papers, making the percentages 5.2% Skeptic, 46.3% Neutral, and 48.5% Pro AGW. Excluding Neutrals, that is 9.6% Skeptic, and 90.4% Pro-AGW.
From 1991-2012 inclusive, there were 252 Skeptic, 2100 Neutral, and 2355 Pro-AGW. That is 5.4% Skeptic, 44.6% Neutral, and 50% Pro-AGW, or excluding Neutrals - 9.7% Skeptic, and 90.3% Pro-AGW
On categorization, the Interactive History of Climate says:
"Skeptical Science takes a different approach to Naomi Oreskes' Science paper who sorted her papers into "explicit endorsement of the consensus position", "rejection of the consensus position" and everything else (neutral). In this case, the backbone of our site is our list of climate myths. Whenever a climate link is added to our database, it is matched to any relevant climate myths. Therefore, each link is assigned "skeptic", "neutral" or "proAGW" whether it confirms or refutes the climate myth.
This means a skeptic paper doesn't necessarily "reject the consensus position" that humans are causing global warming. It may address a more narrow issue like ocean acidification or the carbon cycle. For example, say a paper is published examining the impacts of ocean acidification on coral reefs. If the paper finds evidence that ocean acidification is serious, the paper is categorised as pro-AGW and added to the list of papers addressing the "ocean acidification isn't serious" myth.
There are a large number of neutral papers. Neutral does not mean to say each paper was unable to resolve the climate myth. Sometimes, a paper is relevant to a number of climate myths and the results are mixed as to whether it endorses or rejects all the myths. In many cases, the paper doesn't directly set out to directly resolve the myth or the paper has a regional emphasis rather than global. Papers that met any of these criteria are often categorised as neutral."
So, it differs from the Consensus Project in that it classified based on evidentiary contribution, whereas the Consensus Project classified based on endorsement. Further, it categorized based on support of any of 174 climate myths listed at SkS, so that many of the "skeptic" papers in fact are perfectly consistent with AGW.
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chriskoz at 20:51 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
After having fended off MD's trolls, everyone should be pleased with my perfectly on-topic question:
In 2011, when I was first looking at SkS (that's well before the consensus project) I've seen the "bouncing balls" visualisations here. The visualisation back then, was also about how many papers were "pro-global warming" vs. how many "against" and "neutral". I remember the visualisation very well (a testimony how good such visualisation is a teaching tool): the balls were grouped along the line rather than in triangle; although I don't remember the precise number nor if "pro" vs. "against" amounted to 97%. I cannot find that old visualisation anymore. looks like the consensus project visualisation superceded it.
So, this visualisation is not new. But certainly, the data is new coming from Cook 2013. Finaly the question: what is the relationship between those two? What data was the old visualisation based on and were its categories defined somewhat differently than those in Cook 2013?
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Paul D at 18:48 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Don't feed the troll.
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rugbyguy59 at 15:31 PM on 22 June 20132013 SkS Weekly News Roundup #25B
And guess what Terra.....it already is, and will increasingly be, more dangerous as increased sea levels exacerbate those existing reasons for flooding.
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DSL at 14:31 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
I hope you do look around, JM< because you'll find that this site has more science-based discussion than any other site on the net -- by a long shot. When I say "science-based discussion" I mean arguments that are based on the published science, and that link directly to that science. The number of linked publications site-wide has to be approaching 10k. Several of the regular posters are published, and the site frequently gets guest posts from working scientists.
So when you post evidence-free rhetoric full of what you might think are sly insinuations, it really just comes off as sort of juvenile tough talk.
I am actually professionaly interested in how your current understanding of climate science has been developed, so I'd love it if you'd provide the evidence that led you to write the posts you've written so far. Who knows, maybe you know something that everyone here doesn't, at least where climate is concerned. I'd be willing to bet that everyone here will be more than happy to discuss any new evidence or fresh interpretations of existing studies. -
James Madison at 13:21 PM on 22 June 2013The Consensus Project data visualisation - a history
Rob, thanks.
Rob and Tom, although we disagree, I appreciate your patience and civility.
Refreshing really.
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