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All IPCC definitions taken from Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Working Group I Contribution to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Annex I, Glossary, pp. 941-954. Cambridge University Press.

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Comments 51101 to 51150:

  1. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    DB re my post at #21. I have no problem with the page. It shows the options to view or to download the video, and it asks me for my name and password. I originally registered using a work computer, but I did access it once from this computer about a year ago. If I can find the diary in which I wrote my log-on details I'll comfirm that the video can be accessed, but if I can see the front page I assume that it's OK.
    Moderator Response: [Sph] The link was apparently broken in some way, but (again, apparently) Dikran fixed it, so... all should be well.
  2. CO2 effect is saturated
    curiousd @182, the way to read the graph is to take a projected increase in CO2 in the lower section, and draw a line across till it intersects with a particular climate sensitivity. From that point you take a vertical line upwards to read of the expected temperature increase and environmental consequences. The graph shows an example of that procedure for the central climate sensitivity estimate at 450 ppmv (dashed lines), showing also the 95% confidence interval on climate sensitivity. The graph needs two important caveats. First, it shows only CO2 increases, but CO2 is not the only anthropogenic forcing in the atmosphere. As it happens, CO2 represents about two thirds of all anthropogenic greenhouse gas forcings, and the negative anthropogenic forcing from aerosols approximately balances the forcings from anthropogenic GHG other than CO2. Therefore, for now, the total anthropogenic forcing is approximated by that of CO2 alone. However, aerosols have a short lifetime in the atmosphere, and it is expected that as China and India develop their economy, they will follow the West in limiting the emissions of aerosol. This will increase the expected anthropogenic forcing by up to 50% above the CO2 approximation by the end of this century. On the plus side, the graph above shows the Charney (or Equilibrium) Climate Sensitivity, ie, the climate sensitivity after equilibrium is achieved with no changes to slow feedbacks like albedo from ice sheets. (Note that albedo change from changes in snow cover and sea ice are considered fast feedbacks.) The Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity takes time to be achieved. The immediate challenge is from the Transient Climate Response, which is the approximate immediate temperature impact of a slowly increasing CO2 level. It is about two thirds of the Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity (though estimates vary). This means that the estimate of current temperature increase since the pre-industrial for a 380 ppmv CO2 increase is approximately two thirds of the 1.3 C ECS, or about 0.8 C - which is a reasonably accurate prediction. That is just shy of the point where major impacts are going to be felt, according to the chart, but means there is another 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C "in the pipeline" even with no further increase in CO2. "In the pipeline", however, is an uncertain consequence. It turns out that in the short term (one to two centuries), and with no further emissions, CO2 levels fall at about the rate that the pipeline increase comes through. That means that under ideal conditions the effective increase in temperature could be limited to approximately the transient climate response. Of course, that assumes no further emissions, including from agriculture and construction, or from feedbacks such as methane release from tundra; and ignores the expected increase from reduced aerosol load. It does give us some hope of undershooting the full Equilibrium Climate Response if we genuinely initiate a zero carbon economy. Finally, the BEST temperature indice is a land only temperture, and overstates global temperature increase as a result. You should use (in order of probable accuracy) HadCRUT4, NCDC, or GISTEMP LOTI instead.
  3. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Dana1981@27: I looked at your Table 1 from the March post on 2013. I was attempting to reverse engineer to see what baseline you were using for the GISS anomaly. I regressed the observed vs predicted anomaly and got an RSQ'd of 0.29 (2001 to 2011 inclusive). However, looking for the baseline by backcalc'ing from the predicted number and ENSO/TSI/CO2 adjustments, I got a jumble of numbers. If I took the baseline to be 0.427 and redid the prediction through straight addition of your by year adjustments I got a much better RSQ'd (0.63), quite impressive actually. I may have made an error, or your formula may have exponents or coefficients I don't know about. Either that or Table 1 has some errors.
  4. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Klapper @25... No, actually, it has very little impact on the conclusions, if any at all. And, in fact, if we were to turn the question around and apply it to a "skeptical" argument I might wonder why there was a truncation and I might look into it. If it did not change the overall conclusions I would certainly not make any accusations of deceit as you did.
  5. 2012 SkS Weekly Digest #48
    AML, I'll be interested in your thoughts on Stefansson's book.
  6. citizenschallenge at 00:41 AM on 6 December 2012
    The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Thanks SkS, Daniel, great post. Regarding Pieter Tans "What's Up With the Weather?" ~ ~ ~ "WHAT'S UP WITH THE WEATHER?" PBS Airdate: April 18, 2000 Transcript: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/27gwwarming.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ YouTube - Global Warming. Part 3 - Man-made or natural? (1of2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhP_XJyztE
  7. It hasn't warmed since 1998
    plfreeman? So... what ever happened to plfreeman, who was going to re-analyze your data and come up with better curves?
    Moderator Response: [DB] That was the only comment ever placed at SkS by that person.
  8. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Ever notice how these meticulous folks claim there has been no warming, but never seem to offer an explanation for where all the trillions of calories of heat incrementally added to the system by the Greenhouse Effect may have wandered off to. Cloud Cuckoo Land? Teleported to Venus? Should that not be our first question to these highly ethical gentlepersons?
  9. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    As far as I can tell, none of the members of the "Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club" really truly believes in the Greenhouse Effect. Because if they did, when they make claims like "There has been no warming since year xxxx", they would accompany such a claim with a hypothesis about where those greenhouse-derived incremental calories of heat disappeared to. Yet I have never seen such an accounting ever offered. Evidently, energy CAN be destroyed, or at least ignored, comfortably compartmentalized away with an ironic twist of the arm of the Laws of Thermodynamics.
  10. Weighing change in Antarctica
    Nicely explained Matt. GRACE does not address the changes in ice shelves which in terms of volume have not been significant in most of the regions. Regions 21, 24-26 in your Figure 4 being the exception. Thwaites Ice Tongueand Jones Ice Shelf for example. What means would you suggest for incorporating the ice shelves?
  11. CO2 effect is saturated
    Tom Curtis 174: That is a spectacular graphic you post showing concrete environmental consequences related to climate sensitivity. But I am having trouble figuring out how to interpret this graphic, and I suspect my audience, therefore, would have more trouble. Lets see..Left hand part of the silver section..corresponds to 450 ppm with C.S. of 1.5, right? Then delta t since 1750 is about 1 degree C. The CO2 concentration is really about 380 ppm at present time with BEST showing 1.5 degrees increase at present time since 1750. Therefore BEST shows 3 degrees C.S. with 3 degrees increase since 1750 once one reaches 450 ppm. O.K. so far, since short term c.s. is now experimentally roughly 3 degrees C from many such data sets. But the viewer almost gets the quick, "sound bite take home message" that the lowest 1.5 degree C.S. case is worse than the higher C.S. cases. This I think is because the threshold temperature for the horizontal disaster line at 1000 ppm is, by this graphic, an increase of about 2.8 degrees for the 1.5 C.S. curve but the threshold temperature for the disaster line is higher for the higher C.S. curves. Which, in some sense, cannot be the case. But perhaps the key to the graph is the vertical bands of color? Then different classes of disasters are differentiated. Does bright yellow mean "hundreds of millions exposed to increased water stress"? Then by the graphic, at 380 ppm with 3 degree C.S.we should be there already.....well if you look at the American Midwest Plains these days...could be. Maybe I have that graph figured out now? Took me an hour of study, but there is a wealth of information to digest from the graph so this was study well spent,if I indeed do now understand. Then I wonder if there is away to tweak that graph toward a more rapid comprehension of the reader. If I have now interpreted the graph correctly, I will try to think of a way to do this.
  12. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    The Pieter Trans video is here: http://access.teachersdomain.org/resources/phy03/sci/ess/watcyc/co2/index.html It requires registration, which is a pain, but I recall that it was also included in one of Peter Sinclair's Climate Crocks of the Week. Perhaps someone can remember which specific episode it was, and provide a link?
    Moderator Response:

    [DB] Your link returns a "Page not found" error. After registration, does this link work?

    [Dikran Marsupial] Link fixed (as requested)

  13. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Bernard J #19, Thanks for the correction. I like Stewart's work. The whole series of documentaries is worth checking out. Climate Wars 1 The conclusions are a bit dated, and apply to the 1990s and early 2000s. No one realised then that climate change denial, having lost on the science, would continue to use the "Tobacco Strategy" in politics and the media. PS Do post a link to Tans' video if/ when you find it.
  14. Doug Hutcheson at 17:56 PM on 5 December 2012
    Climate's changed before
    Thanks, Tom, that clears it up for me.
  15. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Shoeymore at #12. Erm, that's Iain Stewart! And yes, it's a simple and very elegant demonstration. Pieter Tans did a similar one for a Nova production called "What's Up With the Weather?" Although I enjoyed Stewart's version I actually prefers Tans' because he uses his own body warmth whilst narrating. It's also the first one I saw, and I suppose that the whole beauty of the demonstration of the physics stuck with me. I can't find the site for Tans' video from this computer, so when I can access my laptop I'll hunt down my bookmark and post it.
  16. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Klapper #24: For Figure 3 (Fig 1 from Rahmstorf et al 2012) you're guilty of comparing an individual realisation (what we see on Earth) with ensemble means of dozens of model projections. Ensembles of model projections smooth out El Nino/La Nina occurrences, as in the model the El Ninos don't all happen at the same time - this smoothing reveals the forced component of climate change. The trajectory on Fig 3 is ensemble means with their uncertainties, essentially just the forced component of climate change. Unforced year-to-year variations, such as ENSO, which do not have a long-term warming or cooling impact, will vary widely about the forced component of climate change. If you've ever looked at a spaghetti chart of individual model realisations and compare them to the ensemble means, you'll see this. Uncertainties on the range of the ensemble mean must not be confused with uncertainties about the range of temperature for individual ensemble members. The former are much, much smaller than the latter in the short term. Perhaps an analogy, relevant to those who have lived through the topsy-turvy weather in Melbourne, Australia over the past week. November temperature in Melbourne is on average (think ensemble mean) 22.5C. The standard deviation of November averages is 1.4C, so common November max temperature monthly averages range from 21C to 24C. This is like the coloured bands in the Foster et al figure. It might be somewhat akin to decadal global temperature averages, smoothing out the year-to-year variation. December's average is 24.5C (std dev 1.7C), indicative of the warming trajectory between the two months, and akin in this analogy to the global warming we expect over the next decade or so. This year, November's mean temperature (one realisation of the ensemble mean), was 23.3C, nicely within the 1-sigma band. But individual temperatures in November (akin to one single realisation of global temperature at one point) range a greast deal beyond those bounds. For example last week we baked in 39C, today it's just 18C, on Saturday it will be 37C, a few days later it will be back to 20C. These are the daily temperature equivalents of El Nino and La Nina, for Melbourne our "El Nino" is when a north wind blows off the hot continent, and our "La Nina" is when the wind blows off the relatively cool Southern Ocean. The highest single November daily max temperature in Melbourne (1980-2011 data) is 40.3C, the lowest is 12.7C. Does that invalidate the ensemble mean, and the tight uncertainty surrounding it? Of course not! Foster et al show that the general trajectory of global warming is exactly where you'd expect (or the IPCC expects) it to be, despite the swash and backwash of individual El Nino/La Nina events on either side of the trend. Melbourne's temperature is on track where we expect it to be for this time of year, despite the individual swash/backwash of hot and cool days. For global temperatures, we're right where we expect to be having just had a double-dip La Nina, and I would suspect ENSO-neutral conditions will take us pretty close to record temps next year. A question for climate analysts out there .... Has the global temperature record ever been broken in an ENSO-neutral year? I suspect not, but the unusual combined pattern of ENSO and solar activity from 1997 to present, alongside continued rising CO2 forcing, makes this possible next year.
  17. CO2 effect is saturated
    Thank you, Doug Bostrom and Tom Curtis. My interest in these measurements has a different motivation than most. I am interested in presentations of the overwheming evidence for AGW and also in effective rebuttals to denialist questions. Here is a common denialist objection with which I have been blindsided.....in effect "The revolutionary treatment of CO2 and the greenhouse effect by Professor X (there exists more than one X) shows that the entire edifice of the present science is wrong. You cannot say that log 2 (Conc2/Conc1) is roughly proportional to temp increase, even for the CO2 contribution alone without feedbacks, because of the discovery of X" Rather than go to the argument that Proffessor X is not published in a standard peer reviewed jounal (will not hack it for lay audience person) or is rebutted by so and so or worse.....getting involved in real time haggling over the physics on the fly, I would prefer an experimental rebuttal. Perhaps there is such an experimental rebuttal in these papers to wit: 1. The veracity of log base two (conc2/conc1) prop to delta temp comes out of line by line computer caculations of the total CO2 absorption in the atmosphere. 2. Particularly in the article by Chen, Harries, et al the difference spectrum for CO2 between 1970 and 2006 is shown to be completely consistent with such line by line computer calculations. Therefore, All such professor X's are experimentally disproven in one stroke. Do you folks think this argument is valid?
  18. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron I would also add that may of the most public 'skeptics' have a very long track record of pitching their comments to appeal to different audiences. You might see them state in one place the sorts things Dan has listed. But when someother skeptic then suggests the GH Effect doesn't exist orsome such thing, they are surprisingly silent. Because allowing as wide a range of dissent and confusion is central to their purpose. When they are challenged they can revert back to the sorts of statements here, but when not being challenged, they are perfectly willing to let statements which, by their own admission they disagree with, go unchallenged. Go to a 'skeptic' blog such as WUWT and listen to the range of quite outrageous comments, and take note particularly of how the owners of the blogs - Watts, Nova, whoever, very rarely step in to disagree with those who say things totally at odds with the very thing they claim to accept. It looks like 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Anyone who is opposed to the same thing they are opposed to can say all sorts of things that they totally disagree with and they will stay silent. Because fomenting discord and confusion is their agenda. Then when challenged they retreat back to the positions above.Then when the challenge goes away, like tortoises coming out of their shells they go back to the business of fomenting discord through studious silence.
  19. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    My only prediction was that 2013 will break the annual average surface temperature record. The 0.76C anomaly was a projection based on a particular solar and ENSO scenario. I should probably revise it with more updated data, now that it appears we will get a weak El Nino at best.
  20. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Dana's prediction assumed an El Nino which looks unlikely, so yes, I would say prediction has to be revived. However, while La Nina is predominate at the moment (which stores heat), are you betting El Nino's arent going to happen? When we get one with an index greater than 1, I'd say that will blow the records out of the water regardless of where in hte solar cycle (but not volcano).
  21. Climate's changed before
    Doug H @337, tidal stress accounts for 0.0004 W/m^2 of the 0.09 W/m^2 geophysical energy from the Earth's interior, or just 0.44%. And yes, differences between Perigee and Apogee are irrelevant in geophysical terms, though not for oceanic tides. Consequently I believe skywatcher's claim withstands scrutiny.
  22. Doug Hutcheson at 11:31 AM on 5 December 2012
    The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron Edwards @ 8 You said
    I am also surprised by your statement, “Of more general interest, the history of climate science is largely the history of what we've learned about CO2.” A more accurate statement would be, “Of more general interest, the history of climate science is largely the history of what we have learned about the chaotic behavior of the ENSO and the redistribution of Pacific Ocean heat into the atmosphere.” CO2 by comparison, is inconsequential in moving heat into the atmosphere.
    The heat energy in the atmosphere comes from somewhere, but what keeps it there? Whether you think it comes from the oceans or from leprechauns, there has to be some mechanism which prevents it from being instantly (or at the speed of light, which is pretty fast) radiated out into space and lost. Thus, we can correctly say “Of more general interest, the history of climate science is largely the history of what we've learned about CO2.”
  23. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Rob Honeycutt@23: The truncation at 2010 does change the strength of your argument, subtle as the change might be. Tom Curtis had a reasonable explanation. Turn the question the other way around. Imagine you saw a graph published by a skeptic which truncated the data a year short of the record, when you knew that year showed a nice bump in temperature. You would likely want to know why, even if it seemed like a minor point.
  24. Doug Hutcheson at 10:36 AM on 5 December 2012
    Climate's changed before
    skywatcher @ 335 You said
    Real-world geophysical events are not controlled by the Moon, but by much larger forces - motions, stresses and sources of heat within the Earth.
    I seem to remember reading that the tidal stress of the moon's gravity acting on our rocky planet generates some of the heat in our core, so some earthly geophysical effects may be contributed to by this influence. Certainly not by the phases of the moon, but could lunar perigee/apogee gravitational differences be enough to have an effect on Terra? I doubt it.
  25. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Tom Curtis@22: The pink line in Figure 3 terminates outside what is probably the "ensemble envelope" (the green shade). Your reasoning is that La Nina's are responsible but these events don't count in the longer term. I'm not so sure that is true. I think the major oscillations advance temperature (or not) by changing the ratio/frequency of El Ninos to La Ninas. If I am wrong then there is no need to compensate for ENSO since there will be no secular trend in it after you get past 15 years of trend length or so. As for volcanic influence there is none significant in the last 17 years or so. As for solar, 2013 will be getting into the peak of cycle 24, although it is a weak cycle. All this leads into a prediction for 2013 which Dana has made (GISS = +0.76). I'm not sure if he's going to update that based on the most recent ENSO prediction, but I don't believe 2013 will be that warm. It would be a record by quite a lot. Either way it will be a test of the hypothesis the real warming trend is being suppressed by ENSO/TSI.
  26. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Klapper @20... You didn't answer my question. Would it change the conclusion of the graph? If not, why does it matter?
  27. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Klapper @18&20, the most recent years data is not shown in figure 5 for the simple reason that it was prepared in Oct 2011, and only used data to that date. Preparing these graphs is time consuming, unfortunately, slanders to the effect that SkS authors are paid for their efforts are in fact false. Dana's herculean efforts are unpaid, and he must find the time for them between the hours spent in paid employment and independent (peer reviewed) academic research. Consequently graphics are not updated with every reuse, nor with every update of the data source. As it happens, if you do prepare a graph of Gistemp with a 12 month running mean, the result is effectively the same as the pink line in figure 3 above. The decline in temperature is so slight that all of the denier predictions other than Akasofu's are still falsified by the data, and Akasofu's prediction is running on the edge of falsification. If you account for volcanic, ENSO and solar influences (as in the red line in figure 3), it is clear that the temperature increase has been accurately predicted by the IPCC TAR and AR4, and not accurately predicted by any denier. In the meantime, I am left wondering, how often will it be necessary to state the obvious: La Nina events are not the same as the onset of the next ice age. That is so obvious a point that you would think that just once deniers would extract the ENSO signal before discussing whether temperatures have increased or not.
  28. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Rob, This gets so tiring. Is there anything that is not construed by certain types -- let's call them D'ers -- as part of some vast conspiracy?
  29. Philippe Chantreau at 09:01 AM on 5 December 2012
    The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Seems Aaron gives a pass to the 2nd law but not the 1st...
  30. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Rob Honeycutt @19: Why not show the downturn then? Who's going to to offer up the reason the temperature graph was terminated on a high point (2010), while the forecasts continued to 2011?
  31. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    Klapper @18... Do you believe that would change the overall conclusion of what the graph is presenting?
  32. The Latest Pre-Bunked Denialist Letter in Lieu of Real Science
    [snip] The GISS SAT record in red appears to end in 2010. I realize it is a centred running average, however the trace could have been extended to 2011, assuming the smoothing was less than 18 months or so. The record should turn sharply down after 2010 but this part of the trace is ommitted.
    Moderator Response: [RH] Snipped per policy.
  33. 2012 SkS Bi-Weekly News Roundup #3
    Agreed, shoyemore, and for the future, this jetting around the globe to faraway destinations for talks about climate change is, IMNSHO, anathema to the raison d'etre of the COPs: Seems to me that the vast majority, if not all the business at hand could be done using teleconferencing, or at least at the same central location, year to year. That's going to have to be part of 'walking the walk,' for JSP (Joe Six Pack) to even come close to buying what the science is saying.
  34. It's El Niño
    It will be interesting to see if Bob returns to answer the questions he's yet to answer: however, in the meantime, he's back at W**T, galloping along with the same tired, rebutted points that he wouldn't answer here. I was looking forward to his answers.
  35. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Another resource: I found this paper to be very well written, interesting and useful. Ray Pierrehumbert in "Physics Today" on Infrared Radiation and Planetary Temperature
  36. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron Edwards@8: it's said that for every problem, there is a simple elegant answer...which is also wrong. Your supposition, "CO2 by comparison, is inconsequential in moving heat into the atmosphere." is one of those wrong ones. Further discussion of ENSO should be taken here. http://skepticalscience.com/argument.php?p=1&t=153&&a=57
  37. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron, I do hope you'll go on to post your concerns with the science, and do so on the appropriate threads. For example, maybe you can help Bob Tisdale figure out a physical mechanism for his claim that ENSO is a forcing. Also, a question: what's worse -- a democracy that thinks that climate sensitivity is perhaps half of the mainstream mean, or a democracy that thinks the greenhouse effect is a fraud designed to squeeze the taxpayer? Which question deserves more attention on a site that is trying to A) communicate the published science to the general public, and B) de-bunk the accountability-free claims of the merchants of doubt?
  38. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    The Duncan Stewart demonstration is probably the best demonstration of the CO2 Greenhouse Effect on the web. Apparently, in some other video demonstrations, there may be other influences or contamination. Beware of smartasses who may point that out!:) Eli Rabett's Puzzle Right Results, Wrong Physics Quote: "Classroom experiments that purport to demonstrate the role of carbon dioxide’s far-infrared absorption in global climate change are more subtle than is commonly appreciated"
  39. CO2 effect is saturated
    curiousd @178, I recently created a radiative model of the atmosphere on a spreadsheet to analyze related questions. The result is that essentially all Outgoing Longwave Radiation (OLR) has its last point of emission before being radiated to space in the lower 30 km of the atmosphere, ie, from the surface, troposphere or stratosphere. Above the stratosphere, atmospheric density is so low that emissions from those altitudes are negligible. My model was too simple to include additional factors (pressure broadening of emission bands; declining CO2 content of the atmosphere above the tropopause) that would reinforce the result. Consequently any satellite, and even sufficiently high flying aircraft, will show essentially the same spectrum. You can experiment with the effect of altitude (up to 70 km) using the modtran model placed in the net by David Archer. Just compare different Iout values for different look down altitudes without changing other settings. With default settings, I obtained the following results: 70 km - 287.844 W/m^2 35 km - 287.027 W/m^2 20 km - 287.593 W/m^2 15 km - 291.863 W/m^2 10 km - 306.433 W/m^2 5 km - 348.54 W/m^2 2 km - 387.79 W/m^2
  40. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Great to see a plug for Science of Doom (SoD) here. If you're keen to build your understanding of the fundamentals of this topic in a fully comprehensive and methodical way, you'll find SoD's explanations a real treat.
  41. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron @ 8... I believe the point is that there's a very noisy faction of climate change deniers who reject very fundamental and well understood science. If you spend any time reading the comments on WUWT, Jo Nova or Judith Curry's blogs you find that there is a sizable percentage of their most vocal following who subscribe to the "there is no greenhouse effect" theory. Those (quite honestly) insane viewpoints tend to get allowed on their blogs because they merely hold the same anti-AGW position.
  42. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Aaron Edwards @8, the "ignorant small minority" represents a sizable fraction of AGW deniers on the internet including many regular readers of, and even guest commentators at AGW denial sites such as WUWT. Apart from the few rare statements such as those collected above, the opinion leaders in AGW denial largely ignore the unscientific clap trap from those who deny even the atmospheric greenhouse effect. IMO, the blind eye they turn to pseudo-scientific poppycock is motivated by their political ends. They do not debate climate science because they are interested in the truth about climate science, but because they desire a political stalemate on action to combat AGW. A political stalemate based on misinformation and pseudo-science is as useful to them as one based on valid criticisms. Indeed, in the end it is all they have to offer. Consequently they turn a blind eye the pseudo science offered by others because, politically, it is as useful as the pseudo science they themselves offer. Only when their reputation started to become tarnished by the association did they speak up - and then having made the appropriate declarations, went back to largely ignoring or egging on of the claptrap they claim is false. It is because of this lack of intellectual integrity by the leading opinion makers among AGW deniers that we must waste time rebutting nonsense such as the denial of the atmospheric greenhouse effect; or other tacit rejections of the laws of thermodynamics such as the claim that the Pacific Ocean (which is warming) has caused the atmospheric warming by loss of heat.
  43. CO2 effect is saturated
    There's a very useful description of the theory, design and operational principles of the AIRS instrumentation at JPL, curiousd. How AIRS Works I'm certainly no expert but it appears the height of the instruments in this context is insignificant in the same way the distance to a star is not important when obtaining information via spectroscopy.
  44. Sheffield vs. Dai on Drought Changes
    A good source of data, viz. drought. USA Drought Information portal.
  45. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    I am a newcomer to your blog and just read the article claiming that persons who are not convinced of catastrophic global warming believe that the greenhouse effect of atmospheric water vapor and other trace gases does not exist. You then list experts in the field who believe as I do (that there is no looming global warming catastrophe that will destroy mankind) who plainly state the greenhouse effect does exist. I am confused as to the point of the article. What ignorant small minority believes that there is no greenhouse effect and why do you address them? What does a reference to these inconsequential people have to do with the work of highly qualified individuals asking legitimate scientific questions about the data and the science behind the claims of the climate alarmists? I am also surprised by your statement, “Of more general interest, the history of climate science is largely the history of what we've learned about CO2.” A more accurate statement would be, “Of more general interest, the history of climate science is largely the history of what we have learned about the chaotic behavior of the ENSO and the redistribution of Pacific Ocean heat into the atmosphere.” CO2 by comparison, is inconsequential in moving heat into the atmosphere.
  46. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Son of Krypton@6, *please* keep me informed of your pseudoskeptic's responses! harwig57 at gmail dot com.
  47. Son of Krypton at 02:52 AM on 5 December 2012
    The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    @John, reading your post at work was a rather terrible idea. Trying to stifle the resulting laughs took far more effort than this cold morning warrants. This post is definitely a gem, and it will be put to good use. I've been in an online fued of sorts with a pseudoskeptic in online debates for more than a year now who often claims there is no evidence for the greenhouse effect and that CO2 is such a small trace gas that increasing amounts have negligable effects. Given that Spencer, Christy, Lindzen and Singer are his favourite sources, this should be a real treat to see
  48. 2012 SkS Weekly Digest #48
    Vrooomie: Looks like an interesting read (I just ordered it from the library). Since I'm relatively new to wrestling with the discourse and I come from a family of climate change deniers, I'm pretty sure I'm the target audience. I am still struck by the incongruity of using a mythical behavior to depict the opposing camp when the opposing camp seems to obfuscate the conversation with myth. But since I can't come up with a better image (a walrus covering it's eyes? do walruses do that?), perhaps the "useful metaphor" is appropriate.
  49. The Greenhouse Gas Effect All-Star Fan Club
    Well played, John Brookes. Well played.
  50. CO2 effect is saturated
    Question here from a physicist educator. I have looked at these satellite comparisons between time frames. I particularly like the last in the series by Chen, et al. They look at the difference between spectra taken in two different satellites between, 1970 and 2006. But, if one were to look at outgoing IR as a function of height, does not the degree of saturation and therefore the details of the spectrum depend on the height you are measuring from? Do we care how precisely these two satellites are at the same height, here? Or perhaps all satellites are so high that the effect I am concerned about is not an issue? This is my first effort to try to understand one of these satellite papers in detail. Therefore I realize my question is probably naive to the expert.

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