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Comments 52501 to 52550:
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ranyl at 23:57 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/an-inconvenient-question-should-al-gore-fly-to-stockholm/ Gore did make some comments about flying. And of course it is CO2 emissions from fossil fuels and habitat destruction that need addressing not breathing. Hansen is calling for 350ppm, therefore carbon sequestration, which would basically need the total cessation of fossil fuel use and a massive carbon sequestration effort through eco-system restoration. Therefore as flying is one of the most intensive fossil carbon emitting activities, it doesn't really seem a sensible activity for anyone understanding the urgent situation we are facing. And if someone wants to look for a way out in denial this is all too easy with this inconsistency of message to action. -
chriskoz at 23:35 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Further to CO2 emitting issue. It's not about how much CO2 we are emitting. It's where the CO2 comes from. For example, if the fuel for Al Gore's jet comes from cooking oil then he can fly as much as he wants, with no adverse effects on CCycle nor atmospheric CO2 rise. Burning C from biosphere does not matter in grand scheme, because that CO2 will be absorbed back by that biosphere eventualy. But burning C from FF sequestered for 100s My is a different story. -
StBarnabas at 23:05 PM on 24 October 2012Sea level rise is exaggerated
Sorry clearly an amateur at this here are the unembellished links.... http://sealevel.colorado.edu/files/2012_rel4/sl_ns_global.png http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_MERGED_Global_IB_RWT_GIA_Adjust.png http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/images/alt_gmsl_seas_rem.jpg The NOAA trend seems to be a bit lower @2.8mm/yr http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/SAT/SeaLevelRise/slr/slr_sla_gbl_free_txj1j2_90_500.png -
StBarnabas at 23:01 PM on 24 October 2012Sea level rise is exaggerated
Here is an updated TOPEX and Jason data time series from CU. Hope it posts OK as I have not tried here before. Seems completely consistent with previous results from CU. It seems that CU AVISO, CSIRO and NOAA all have converged on a 3.1 mm/yr rate.
Source
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CBDunkerson at 21:38 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
ranyl, it would only be hypocrisy if Gore had ever said something to the effect of, 'the situation is so dire that we should stop using airplanes'. Given that he hasn't said anything like that, the whole 'Gore flies on airplanes so global warming must be fake' argument is, to borrow a phrase, 'not even wrong'. It's just stupid. Halting all air travel would not solve AGW... and solving AGW does not require halting all air travel. They might as well claim that Al Gore does not really believe in global warming because he continues breathing... which releases CO2! Humans will continue emitting CO2 into the atmosphere. That is inevitable and no one is saying we need to stop it. Rather, what Gore, Hansen, and other sensible people have called for is that we limit how much CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) we emit such that we do not continue strengthening the greenhouse effect. -
Brian Purdue at 18:24 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
The head of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, when asked if you’re wrong about humans changing the climate said "--- then I will have to say I’m sorry---“. Sorry, but saying sorry is unequivocally not good enough because it will be too late. -
Doug Hutcheson at 18:02 PM on 24 October 2012The Climate Show #29
JasonB and DMCarey, thanks for trying to cheer me up "8-). Only when the tide of public opinion is behind us will informed decisions by our politicians be possible and ensuring the survival of our civilisation is clearly a political problem. Maybe my cynicism prevents me from noticing a turning of the political tide in countries "informed" by the Murdoch Juggernaut (AKA "The Evil Empire", but I digress). When the Tea Party starts demanding action to save their beachfront homes; when the Australian Liberal Party adopts policies designed to address AGW; when Christopher Monkton The Great (Deceiver) admits he is wrong; only then will I believe appropriate action will be taken. Of course, by then, it will be too darned late, but heck, at least I will be able to say "told you so" to the Viscount and his cadre. -
ranyl at 18:00 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
"I agree that it's stupid to somehow try to dismiss, for example, Gore's message because he takes a plane somewhere." Hypocracy is the easiest way to havevagruements dismissed, and therefore I suspect due to this AL Gore has done more harm than good. And if he flies despite what he says then why shouldn't everyone else? He's hardly taking it that seriously is he? Hansen flies alot as well and yet we have a world of instant global communication. About time people walked their talk I'd say. Also about time climate scientists starting saying they are alarmed and be proud to be so! -
Doug Hutcheson at 17:14 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Fred Singer likes to see "good science"? Heartland believes in "sound science"? Gee, don't say those nasty warmistas have been misunderstanding these paragons of virtue! I'm glad I don't own any of those North Carolina beachfront homes, because leaving it to my kids in my will would be giving them a poisoned chalice. -
Bert from Eltham at 16:48 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that. Bert -
Old Mole at 16:22 PM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
lord_sidcup @21 Off topic, but I suspect someone has been reading Wodehouse as well as Whitehouse. Odd choice, that. -
Doug Hutcheson at 16:02 PM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
Thanks for another great post, Dana. I am constantly baffled by the deliberate obtuseness of people who argue for low climate sensitivity and a warm MWP. Own goal indeed. -
Doug Bostrom at 15:17 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
...I think we have won the debate with the American people in the heartland. A two-way minority, as the US census and opinion surveys on climate change tell us. Global Warming’s Six Americas -
Brian Purdue at 15:11 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Where do you start with people like that? They need a major brain rewiring job. -
DSL at 15:04 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Yah, I'm not sure the AFP guy could have written a better script for telling his freedom-loving constituency that "I control your opinions, I'm proud of it, and I think you're too dumb to do anything about it (or even realize it when I'm telling you all this point blank)." Ultimate public response from this piece? *reaches for the bottle of anti-depressants* -
YubeDude at 14:27 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Just finished watching Frontline... Myron Ebell of the CEI says, "There are holdouts among the urban bi-coastal elite, but I think we have won the debate with the American people in the heartland. The people who get their hands dirty, people who dig up stuff, who grow stuff and make stuff for a living; people who have a closer relationship to tangible reality, to stuff" I guess one only needs to check their finger nails to know what side of reality they are on, or to what degree they are being manipulated by skilled contrarians who avoid the science in favor of witty word play and glossy spin miestering. Without directly saying so, Ebell just called a majority of working class Americans too dumb to do anything other than work with "stuff", and only smart enough to understand that which is directly in front of their faces. On that last point I tend to agree. -
Bob Loblaw at 13:38 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Just finished watching the Frontline show. Quote: "Scientists call this 'Going Down the Up Escalator'" -
wili at 12:51 PM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
I agree that it's stupid to somehow try to dismiss, for example, Gore's message because he takes a plane somewhere. But I do think that we all need to have some idea of the level of our impact, and look for reasonable ways to reduce it. Yes, ultimately systems have to change. But it will be much easier to move quickly to renewables if our use of energy were a fraction of our current rate--in fact we would be within easy reach at that point. But if we all have ever increasing rates of use, or even just hope to maintain our absurdly high rates of energy use, it will be very hard to get anywhere near full renewable use for a long, long time--longer than we have. So really, guilt isn't the point. The point is to see clearly what we are doing so we can adequately prioritize the changes we need to make. Anyway, thanks for the input. Any further help on the math would be more than welcome. -
YubeDude at 11:43 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
OPa@25 "- take a marginally valid point of scientific discussion" "- exaggerate it and draw absurd, unjustifiable conclusions from it" For the typical individual who didn't: go to university, study statistics, work in research, read peer review journals, or ponder the complexities of any thing more involved the a cricket score these statements are met with a blank expression and a "so what". AGW as an issue of science is generally accepted within the science community and the data that serves as evidence for this position, though it is complex, is not confusing for those who have studied the science and understand the nature of natural systems. Now how many people in the general population are going to be able to fit in this niche of comprehension? For every Einstein there is a soccer stadium full of halfwit hooligans swilling beer and screaming at men kicking a ball. Taking a marginal point and spinning it into a unjustifiable conclusion is as easy as selling lotto tickets to the delusional. -
Steve Metzler at 10:24 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
I hear you about the individual emissions, wili, but I also loathe how that guilt trip thing has become one of the major tools of the dissemblers: "So, just what are *you* personally doing to combat climate change?" To me, it's the equivalent of: "Hey look, there goes a squirrel!", and is used primarily to deflect attention away from whatever is the real topic at hand. Yes, we can all try to do our bit, and I'm not saying that every little bit doesn't help. But what we really need to do is change the way we generate electricity (especially, we need to get rid of coal) to use primarily renewables, and then gear up our surface transport to run off this clean electricity. That's a big ask, but it would go a long way towards solving the CO2 problem. -
wili at 09:08 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Oh, many of the denialists are very smart. Certainly the Koch brothers are. It is more a matter of intellectual honesty, and I'm not sure there's a good test for that. OT question: Hansen in his TED talk and elsewhere has said that our ghg emissions are adding the equivalent energy to the atmosphere of 400,000 Hiroshima bombs every day. Could someone check my calculations (and assumptions) to see if I am somewhere in the right ball park for what that comes to for individual emissions? As far as I can figure, Hansen's figure means that, over a decade, the average member of the top billion emitters (who are responsible for about 80% of emissions) has personally released the equivalent of at least on Hiroshima bomb (again, over the last ten years). (That would presumably include pretty much everyone who posts here and pretty much everyone that we know.) Thanks ahead of time for any corrections, suggestions, tweaks, reactions... -
Tom Dayton at 08:14 AM on 24 October 2012New research from last week 42/2012
Tamino has commented exactly as IanC has, about the Zhou and Tung (2012) paper that shoyemore asked about. -
Glenn Tamblyn at 07:31 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Radical concept, no doubt someone will scream discrimination but... Any candidate for any seat in government must pass a simple testor they can't standforoffice. IQ greater than 120. This might be relaxed somewhat for those with University qualifications in technical disciplines - science, engineering, maths etc Wishful thinking I know but we can dream. -
Alpinist at 07:19 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
Well from this graph (Figure 3) it’s pretty obvious that global warming stopped in 1996 1997 1998. Never mind, I just realized I had my head tilted 20 degrees…. Thanx, Tamino and Skeptical Science. Cross Posted... -
M Tucker at 06:51 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
This may not stand up to moderation. I may have violated the no political comments rule, but, after all you did say, "The program focuses mainly on how and why the politics and public perception of the climate issue have shifted in the USA." So here goes… "What’s behind this massive reversal?" Frontline is of course talking about just what happened in the US. Prior to the 2010 midterm elections the House of Representatives did pass a climate bill. Sure it was a weak bill but it finally passed and went over to the Senate where the minority rules. Where it takes 60 votes (we call it a supermajority) to get anything done and the Majority Leader determined that it just could not get passed; no matter what. So it died. After the 2010 elections the “reversal” happened. "What’s behind this massive reversal?" Follow the money. If Frontline is not going to talk about Citizen’s United, the conservative dominated Supreme Court, and who funded the elections of the Republicans in 2010 then we will not hear the whole story. So, YubeDude and StBranabas, that is shortcoming of democracy; if you extend the vote to everyone than every fool gets a vote. So far, in the US, the fools have packed the House of Representative so do not expect a climate bill even if Obama is reelected. He could talk until he is blue in the face about the reality of the problem, nothing will get the House to even allow a bill let alone discuss it. No matter what a given poll says, the only poll that counts takes place on election day and the balance of power in the House will pretty much stay the same after November 2. The fools are still in charge. De Tocqueville did an excellent critique of democracy. I’ll try to watch Frontline but it comes on pretty late for me. -
IanC at 05:29 AM on 24 October 2012New research from last week 42/2012
Shoyemore, As far as I can see the WUWT article actually largely reflects what Zhou and Tung (2012) (ZT12) concluded. The real issue is really whether ZT12 got the analysis right, but I'm not convinced that they did. As I understand it, ZT12 is an extension to Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) (FR11). FR11 used multiple linear regression to remove effect of 'natural' forcings on temperature, such as solar, ENSO, and volcanic aerosol. The novelty of ZT12 is that they carried out the same analysis for a much longer period, and added in atlantic multidecadal oscillation (AMO) as an additional `natural' factor for the temperature trend. What they've found is that after doing the regression, the implied anthropogenic warming is only 0.08 degrees per decade, or half of FR11. More importantly they found that the anthropogenic warming has remained constant, and not accelerating as one would expect given the CO2 forcing. The study is sound in principle, but flawed in execution IMO. In order to genuinely separate out the natural and anthropogenic signal, you have to use the right indices to represent the natural factors. Unfortunately for AMO, the commonly used index is the sea surface temperature (SST) of the north atlantic, which itself is a superposition of the AMO and global warming signal. The Authors used the linearly detrended SST, which probably removes the linear aspect of the global warming signal, but the nonlinear part of the global temperature signal is still embedded in the AMO index used by ZT12. Thus when ZT12 removed the effect of AMO, they've really removed not just the effect of natural AMO, they probably also threw away the nonlinear signal, thus underestimating the anthropogenic signal. I think this is certainly crucial to the validity of their paper, and have the potential to completely nullify their findings. I am surprised that this question is not addressed in the paper at all. I don't have the technical expertise to check this, but I am hoping that someone will. -
vrooomie at 05:01 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
DSL@20: "No matter how cynical you get, it's *impossible* to keep up." Lily Tomlin, from "The Search for Signs Of Intelliegent Life in The Universe." >;-D -
vrooomie at 04:57 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
StBarnabas@7: With your permission, and proper attribution, I'm gonna *steal* that line! "Invincible ignorance:" Truly one for the ages! I too, battle those with severe cases of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome (essentially the same as II, but less fun to say!) and though I always strive to answer questions, once it become apparent that they suffer from II, I give up. Dana, thanks for the reminder post; I've done the same on Facetubes, too. -
itscoldoutside at 04:56 AM on 24 October 2012Antarctica is gaining ice
FYI, a more-or-less positive press article on this: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1275441--antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing-is-global-warming-over (which might be a step forward for The Star, until recently the were still in the habit of including a random denialist quote). -
StBarnabas at 04:27 AM on 24 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
First post Great site and congrats to all. To my great shame my brother in law is a climate change denier. The fact that I have a PhD in Physics and that he does not even have a CSE in maths or any science does not seem to trouble him. I just get mad at his "invincible ignorance" as my dad would have put it. Anyway sorry for the rant and thanks again for taking the time to compile this. Sadly facts do not seem to work either.... StB -
OPatrick at 04:21 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
There's a real classic 'sceptic' feel to this whole thing: - take a marginally valid point of scientific discussion - exaggerate it and draw absurd, unjustifiable conclusions from it - when people challenge these ludicrous exaggerations accuse them of ignoring the issue, circling the wagons, not saying what you want them to say in the way you want them to What disgusts me is that Judith Curry doesn't just buy in to this, she is a prime force driving it. -
Kevin C at 02:56 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
Chris G: Check out the first paper in New Research #42 - model shoing increased winter negative AO. There also an older paper on colder boreal winters which Tamino has posted about very recently. The recent cold winters certainly seem to be tied up with the warm Arctic, and are dragging HadCRUT down because it misses the Arctic. However as far as I understand (which is no more than you when it come to models), I think they are the result of us just having undergone a change in the Arctic, rather than approaching one. Of course the knock-on effect on the Arctic may trigger other unforseen changes, but I wouldn't even attempt to guess what they might be. -
Chris G at 01:49 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
Kevin C, thanks for that comparison. I've read a couple of articles on behaviors of complex systems that have tipping points. (Don't confuse me with someone with any expertise on the subject.) One of the common characteristics as a tipping point was approached is that the variation decreased. Imagine a marble in a bowl (embedded in some multidimensional, irregular surface), with some internal, inherent movement of the bowl, plus an external force on the marble. (Maybe it is a bearing and there is an electromagnetic of increasing strength nearby.) As the mean location of the marble moves further up the side of the bowl, the variance of its movement decreases. Basically, it is progressively harder to push it up the side of the bowl for both the internal and external forces, and the external force keeps it from going down the side very much. Until, the marble goes over the lip and heads toward the nearest other local minimum that represents the next region of relative stability. I've no doubt that the HADCRUT data sets have an inherent bias, but I have a nagging worry in the back of the head that this period of high temps with little increase, and no decrease despite there having been La Nina and low TSI conditions, is consistent with the earth coming to the edge of a local minimum. Lord_sidcup, what you said is very consistent with the observed bias of the people who choose to read the Daily Mail. Birds of a feather and all that. OT, thanks for the heads-up on the PBS Frontline piece. -
Cugel at 01:33 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
The personal connections and overlaps between top people at the Mail, the GWPF and UKIP are an open secret. Like-minded chaps who will recreate the Tory party as it ought to be and save England and the Union. While denying AGW, which seems to be a sine qua non with the far-right. It could be 40 years ago, in Heath's days. Most amusing to watch. -
lord_sidcup at 00:27 AM on 24 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
David Rose is only a conduit. His 2 recent articles (and likely many of his previous) are largely sourced from or written by David Whitehouse of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. Rose's latest effort bears an uncanny resemblance to a Whitehouse article that appeared on the GWPF website on the 15 October called 'The Mail on Sunday and the Met Office' (I won't link). Similarly, Rose's original 13 October article is based on a David Whitehouse cherry-picking exercise published by GWPF on 10 October called 'An Updated Hadcrut4 – And Some Surprises' (not currently available on the GWPF website - undergoing redesign – but can be found on other denier sites). Sad to see a once respected investigative journalist reduced to repeating the one-sided propaganda of Nigel Lawson’s 'sceptic' think-tank. Curry is only in there only to add a bit of credibility. When it comes to climate change The Mail have ceded a large degree of editorial control to the GWPF. Occassionally some reasonable climate change articles do appear in the Mail, but generally the articles are heavily weighted towards repeating the GWPF line. -
DSL at 23:37 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
My cynicism having been said, it does seem like a fish-in-a-barrel opportunity for investigative reporters. People who can't be ignored need to start naming names--calling people out. The PBS piece is presumably a start, but of course PBS is a propaganda tool for those freakish liberals (no matter - when Romney arrives, Elmo dies). The target audience is willfully immune to many of the organizations that might produce such investigative pieces. Well shucks, I'm back to cynicism. -
Daniel Bailey at 23:24 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Neal, thickness is less regimentally observable. A surrogate for thickness is volume, which is better constrained and finite:
Source
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Paul D at 22:34 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
How long before the Daily Mail joins the ranks of The News of The World, The BBC and The Mirror in the ongoing media scandals across the UK? -
CBDunkerson at 22:20 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
jyyh, the term 'doubling down' comes from the card game blackjack. Basically, you make an initial bet upon receiving your hand and then have an option to double that bet (i.e. "double down") after receiving the first additional card. The intent is thus that, rather than changing course after seeing the reaction to the first article (corresponding to seeing the first additional card in the game), Curry and Rose are going even further in pushing their position (corresponding to doubling their bet). -
jyyh at 22:04 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
sorry, off topic joke, but them denialistas must be quite thick and short for all this "doubling down", I've never understood the phrase but imagining a cardboard Curry in 16-folded layers suddenly made this one clear for me. :-D. Fold the cardboard ad and go. -
nealjking at 21:29 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
You could call Figure 2 "the Icecalator". But is there any graph of ice thickness? -
dwr at 19:41 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Any chance of a 'sea level rise escalator' guys? -
MarkR at 17:19 PM on 23 October 2012Nuccitelli et al. (2012) Show that Global Warming Continues
#62 markx , your comment starts off right, the ocean heat data do come from temperature measurements. Ocean heat isn't my exact area, but your comments would fit with the values given by Levitus. The error bars are much larger before ARGO started. Using the ARGO figures, and assuming that ARGO can measure to 1 C precision, then my global ARGO error estimate for pentadal data (using basic stats) is 0.001 C. If the previous network were 100 times more sparse than ARGO then that would multiple the 5 year error by a factor of 10 to 0.01 C (it's 10, not 100 because we're working with square roots here). And if the precision were only to +-2 C, then the overall error becomes 0.02 C. Comfortably smaller than 0.09 C (and of course, the 0.09 C comes from the trend which has different errors, not comparing just 2 points) So I'm quite comfortable with the values that Levitus et al give: much larger error bars in the past before ARGO, but still small enough to tell the difference. Simply because of the sheer number of individual measurements. If you think the Levitus et al error numbers are wrong, do you have a reference to show this in detail? -
Kevin C at 15:58 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
In HadCRUT4, analysis and critique I used both GISTEMP and UAH to show that the lack of polar coverage in the HadCRUT datasets caused coverage bias in the resulting temperature estimates. The impact was a warm bias around 1998, declining to a cool bias more recently, hence creating a plateau. The combination of this effect and the shift from El Nino to La Nina are sufficient to explain all of the recent apparent slowdown in warming. My latest project is to allow anyone to calculate the instrumental temperature record in their web browser, using their choice of data and methods. This allows a check of my claim above. Here is a sneak preview. First, the CRU and HadSST2 data using the HadCRUT method (note we are not even using HadSST3, so this is more akin to HadCRUT 3 than 4):
Note the poor coverage in the mini maps.
Now, the same data and calculation, but allowing each station to influence a 1200km radius, weighted by distance, like GISTEMP.
Despite the ENSO shift, we still see rather more warming over the Rose/Curry period. The results show exactly the same thing as my previous analysis.
Is the 1200km method used by GISTEMP valid? Yes, and you can prove it experimentally. I used cross validation to see which method suffers most bias if additional regions of the planet are omitted. The 1200km method is less biassed.
Moderator Response: [DB] Fixed image widths. -
YubeDude at 15:43 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
I'd suggest an investigative reporter sit down with the editorial board and challenge their decision in posting and supporting this tripe. I'd suggest letters to the NY Times be sent that ask questions of the Mail Online's editorial board. Ask the NYT why they aren't asking these questions. I'd suggest this be taken to a wider audience, one that is less concerned over the details of the article Rose wrote and is more concerned with the lack of editorial honesty and objectivity. Enlist the Guardian in asking these questions. But then I do have to agree and express being equally doubtful; doubtful that these kind of manipulative articles will be replaced by objective journalism, doubtful that our current energy programs will be replaced by more progressive programs that alter the trajectory of emissions, and doubtful a more insightful and caring society will rise from the ashes of what we currently call civilization. Animals do what animals do, we just do it with better hair and whiter teeth. -
dana1981 at 15:19 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
JohnB @1 - thanks and sorry, we're having some issues migrating SkS to a new server. I think the link should work now, but the new Escalator graphics won't be available on the Graphics until we get the transition sorted out. -
YubeDude at 15:12 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
[...]how and why the politics and public perception of the climate issue have shifted in the USA. How and why indeed. AGW is no different than any number of political issues that the public has been invited to weigh in on. Everything from foreign policy to the regulation of financial institutions are open for discussion between professional bass anglers and trailer hitch installers over a cold one down at the bowling alley. The fact that AGW deals with a complex natural physical system, a system that to this day is not 100% completely understood or has every component quantified, yet we equate the musings of a high school physical education instructor with a research physicist in discussing the viability of opposing positions. The fact that complex topics have set up shop on main street and every passing thought is given consideration helps to create a cacophonous river swollen with a flood of misinformation, the kind of misinformation that quickly dilutes what are actual "facts" in favor of personal feelings and opinion. What is as big a concern as drowning in a dialog of opinion is the fact that many of these same opinionated voices, whose insight labored in a high school civics class, actually vote. -
DSL at 15:08 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
What flames, YD? I'm highly doubtful of any mode of accountability being exercised. -
JohnB6223 at 15:08 PM on 23 October 2012Climate of Doubt and Escalator Updates
Arctic escalator image link broken -nil display. -
YubeDude at 14:23 PM on 23 October 2012Rose and Curry Double Down on Global Warming Denial
As much as I respect this posting and appreciate the focus on actual science it appears to me to be a comparison of healthy apples and lingerie. Dana articulates the science and shows Rose's article is both misleading and unsupported by available metrics. Rose on the other hand is trying to manipulate with emotion and does so with the expectation that the details of science will fly past his readers and the bulk of society. Dana is speaking clearly and uses graphs and graphics that help to establish the reality of the science while Rose is using vague generalities that depended on the ignorance of society when it comes to the language of science. This double-down is just more wordsmith Three Card Monte used to confuse. Rose is not going to address the questions regarding the metrics or his interpolation because for his audience it will not matter or make any sense. He wants to establish a more populist tone while staying clear of the gobbledegoo of academic palaver. -I mean after all aren't all scientist and elites just a bunch of egg-heads who think they know more than us working people? It was cold this morning, AGW my ass!- sarc Think of the two of them as new car salesmen. Dana stress fuel economy standards and safety features while Rose keeps telling us how "sexy" the car is. Market research tells us that more people care about getting laid then they do about seat belts. Until we can stop this sophistry in it's tracks and hold media outlets to the flames of informational integrity we are going to be bloodied over and over again in a war of words we can't win because we don't sell "sexy".
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