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Climate Hustle

Donald Trump vs Paris Climate Agreement

Posted on 5 June 2017 by Guest Author

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Comments 1 to 6:

  1. Well said young guy. So much more mature and thoughtful than what we are getting from certain other people.

    Trump's main objection appears to be that China is allowed to continue with coal power for some years and this is an unfair deal.

    My immediate reaction is this is not unfair to America or other countries like mine. America has contributed more per per capita to emissions than China (as has my country) so I dont see this as an unfair deal for China to get an exemption for a limited period.

    Even if Trump can argue that there is some unfairness, or something less than ideal, it just seems so petty, and like the complaining of a spoilt child. 

    It's also better to keep China in the agreement, and this justifies treading carefully with China. America should see this as a win for America, by having a big nation in the agreement, because it will ultimately be of benefit to future generations of americans. This justifies the negotiated deal with China.

    And basically  cuts are voluntary and no special or excessive requirements were put on America. So all this looks suspiciously like more anti China thinking from Trump. 

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  2. Paris Agreement: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

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  3. Great points! But whenever you're dealing with Trump you're also dealing with a master chisler and charlatan. So in those terms, what he's done is very predictable. The US is littered with millions upon millions of climate change deniers. I would go so as far to say there are more climate deniers in a few US states than the entire country of Canada. That being said, Trump is playing to his base (politically) which, "shockedface" has a great deal of self imposed ignorance in-bred into their clique. This may sound overly harsh but in reality this point is sadly more true than many Amercians are willing to admit. They are no longer are the "home of the brave and land of the free".  Trump does in fact reflect the views of over 60 million Amercian voters.

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  4. President Trump's responsibilities are to the American people. There has always been and will always be competition among nations. This is not a bad thing as long as the competition has a moral and legal basis. We should not be too critical of the President because of his singular personality and what seems to be, on the surface, a good measure of immaturity. Just wait and see.

    Equality among nations is a pipe dream, unrealizable and undesirable. And the climate-change theories are sort of like the Piltdown-Man theory when scientists accepted, for more than 40 years, that a monkey's bone was that of a human ancestor.

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    Moderator Response:

    [DB] Please review this venue's Comments Policy and construct future comments to comply with it.

    Ideology and sloganeering snipped.

  5. A polluter is caught in the action of polluting. He himself may determine the height of the fine he has to pay. Worse, if he doesn’t pay at all, he cannot be legally prosecuted. That’s basically the content of the Paris agreement.

    Imagine the same principle would be applied for paying taxes: you can choose the amount of taxes you pay, and if you don’t pay a cent nobody will bother you. Does anybody with one healthy brain cell left believe that this way the government would receive enough money to cover their expenses ?

    Now why would we believe that in case of climate change this deal will make a difference ? it is exactly because it is an agreement without teeth that the fossil fuel industry allowed it to pass. Exxonmobile even urged Trump to stay in the climate agreement.

    But dumbass Trump pulls out of the Paris climate agreement. Imo in that case al deals are off the table. If you refuse an amicable settlement, it is back to a full blown lawsuit in which the extent of the caused damage is established by experts and the full indemnity must be paid. The human rights should provide enough of a basis for a lawsuit.

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  6. Dfwlms @4, yes  there is inevitably competition between nations and at some levels this is quite healthy. However this competition also caused WW1, WW2, and the cold war and current troubles with Korea. Its a perplexing, double edged sword and humanity has spent many years trying to reconcile this difficult situation.

    The post WW2 thinking has been to strengthen bonds between countries with international agreeements, The UN, trade, tourism and immigration. Despite some  problems with this, I think the overall results have been an incredible success on so many different levels. It's the way to go.

    Of course such globalisation processes need care and cannot be uncontrolled or absolute. Sovereignty is also important. Immigration needs some level of control and people hurt by globalisation forces deserve assistance and maybe income support, for a period, etc.

    I dont know where it will end. A united states of the world perhaps? I have mixed feelings on that. But remember the nation state is a recent invention at The Treaty of Westphalia.

    There are both advantages and problems with excessive power of organisations like the UN, but one thing I'm absolutely certain of international linkages and agreements are important,  and given we all share the same atmosphere and climate system, such that one country can have negative affects on everyone, internationalism seems inevitable on at leasst some big issues, if we want to survie and prosper and have a stable environment.

    It is very clear most countries are embracing some level of globalisation, just look at both global and regional trade agreements in  recent years. Virtually everyone wants to be part of these.

    Donald Trump is going in the opposite direction and fails to grasp the benefits of globalisation. He sees things a ruthless competition and some sort of zero sum game, when its just more complicated and subtle than that with huge benefits for America. Free trade has benefitted  America, and has lifted millions in developing countries out of poverty. We just have to ensure workers in America are not overly disolocated, but rather than bringing back tariffs, there are better  ways to do this.

    Climate science is a whole lot more sophisticated, advanced and thorough than some piltdown man hoax centuries ago.Thousands of scientists have written thousands of research papers looking at every aspect of climate change to be as sure as possible they have got things right. There is intense "competition" between scientists and far more crticicism of "warmists" against warmists than you probably realise.

    I dont think we can ever be 100% sure of anything in this world, but it is better to go with the findings of science, than gut feelings, and a lot of climate scepticism seems little more than driven by emotion and fear, desperately searching for increasingly desperate sounding denialist arguments. I cannot and will not accept such intellectual nonsense.

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