Arguments
Video: scientists simulate the climate of The Hobbit's Middle Earth
Posted on 17 June 2015 by dana1981
Dan Lunt is a climate scientist at the University of Bristol, and also a tremendous fan of J. R. R. Tolkien’s books. He was able to stitch together enough information to create a model of the fictional world of Middle Earth and simulate its climate.
As part of the Denial101x course, John Cook interviewed Lunt and discussed the process of simulating the climate of Middle Earth. The interview revealed some interesting tidbits. For example, as discussed in Part 2 below, parts of New Zealand, near where the movie was filmed, have a similar climate to that of The Shire. Los Angeles and Alice Springs, Australia share a climate similar to that of Mordor.
The climate of Middle Earth interview, Part 1.
The climate of Middle Earth interview, Part 2.
The climate of Middle Earth interview, Part 3.
I also inquired whether Lunt might consider simulating the climate in the fictional world of Game of Thrones.
When I was at University (Galway, West of Ireland) we used to get a kick out of finding Tolkien's names on old examination papers - apparently he often visited as an External Examiner in Old English during the 1940s and 1950s. That was when Lord of the Rings became a runaway success, late 1960s. I remember the Profesor of Geology had a theory that some of the topography of the edges Mordor was inspired by the barren Connemara mountains and bogs. I suppose the climate blows that one way, but at least visually ... ??
[RH] Reduced image size.
Just to show that Tolkien buffs are never satisfied, I reproduce my (tonge in cheek) comment on Lunt's paper from when it was first released below. Prior to that, however, I want to note the excellent teaching value of the model and of the video's by John Cook. Well done in both cases. And now, my comment:
I noted with pleasure that John Cook in questions in the first video picked up on the fact that Middle Earth was flat (until the fall of Numenor), but Lunt evaded his question on that point. However, he failed to pick up on the fact that Elves did leave Middle Earth from near the mouths of the Pelargir (near Tol Amroth). Lunt offered an explantion as to why they left from the Grey Havens rather than "western Gondor" but Tol Amroth was at the same latitude as western Gondor so his explanation explains too much.
shoyemore @1, Mordor, or at least the plains of Gorgoroth which Frodo and Sam transited, was presented by Tolkein as being almost devoid of plant life. Ergo even Mordor pound is too verdant to represent Mordor:
Further, the reason for the baren terrain of Gorgoroth presented by Tolkein was the poisonous fumes from Orodruin, so that even the spinifex that dominates the vegetation in Mordor Pound would probably not have survived there.
Sorry, I forgot to add a link to Lunt's paper.
Tom Curtis @2:
Well played, sir. Well played.
Tom Curtis,
Wonderful tongue-in-cheek critique of Dan Lunt's model. Kudos to Cook and Lunt for the videos.
Your knowledge of MIddle-Earth is better than mine, but I still have a hankering for a view of Mordor's edge across the Dead Marshes, approaching from Emyn Muil being like the top picture. I am sure the rainfall in the West of Ireland does not match that of the model (about a factor or 2 higher, I think), but as a visualisation it pleases me.
The best MIddle Earth of all is the one we retain in our imagination. John, Dan & Tom have stimulated our imagination and supplied worthy endnotes to the trilogy itself.
shoyemore @6, that Connemara inspired Tolkein's conception of the geography from the Dead Marshes looking towards Mordor is certainly possible. I suspect, however, that like most major geography in middle earth it was determined by the necessities of a concieved history moderated by the requirements of the narrative. From that perspective Emyn Muil would have been conceived first, along with the nature of Mordor as surrounded by mountains. With that, we then add Dagorlad ("battle plain") and the Dead Marshes as necessary battle sites due to their relation to the primary exit from Mordor. Tolkien would then have fleshed out both with two different conceptions of the effects of combat on geography. Dagorlad (previously home to the Ent wives) was, in effect England (or the Shire) made desolate by warfare; while the dead marshes hark back to "no man's land" of the Somme (where Tolkein fought).
On that theory, we must imagine the Dead Marshes as looking like this:
Only we must imagine the unrecoverable corpses still preserved by vile magic, and the pits and hollows fill with stank water forming ponds covered by an algal scum and dank struggling grasses on the verge of any land still above water.
That speculation has support both in Tolkein's description of the Dead Marshes:
And also in Tolkein's own comments in his letters.
On this view, then, the rise above the bog of the mountains of Mordor are a necessary consequence of the notion that Mordor is surrounded by high, nearly impassable mountains, while the foreground is determined by an imagining of the Somme turned swampland.
(The picture, by the way is of Scwhabben Redoubt, where Tolkein fought as part of the 25th division).
Finally, the only worthy endnotes to the trilogy are The Silmarillion, Hurin's Children, and sections of Unfinished Tales which I heartilly recommend to anybody who has read and enjoyed the trilogy. I understand that some people find the Silmarillion difficult going as it is not in the style of modern novels, so if you have tried to read the Illiad or the Mort d'Arthur and not enjoyed them, perhaps read only Hurin's Children.
I would be delighted to think of myself as (and certainly Lunt has) contributed a useful footnote to Tolkein scholarship.
This picture from the Canada tar sands looks like Mordor to me, and all the life is gone.
Tom Curtis #7,
Well imagined. Those Connemara mountains also have their ghosts. You can still come across the stone walls with the outline of cottages and fields where communities of people planted potatoes before the Great Famine of the 1840s. A morbid or vivid imagination could run wild, especially on a overcast & gloomy West of Ireland day.
Personally, I love the area, but you could not miss echoes of the great calamity that once happened thereabouts.
Tolkien had many influences that worked on his imagination, and (maybe) his brief visits to the Connemara did influence him.
The pope had a perfect right to comment on climate change. After all, his was the organization that god bequethed her good works to. When God gave us dominion over the fish that swim in the sea, the birds that fly in the air and everything that goes forth upon the land, dad was passing on to us his miraculous good works into our hands. I don't think he intended for us to trash his creation but to protect and even improve it. (sorry, if god made it, it was perfect and couln't be improved). Pope Francis is just pointing out to his sinning followers that they are the ones that are destroying the earth. The pope must find it somewhat frustrating that by and large, it is the athiests and agnostics of the population that want to preserve gods bounty while his followers take gods work as a licence to destroy it.